What Mormons Believe About: God, man, Jesus, salvation, Bible/authority, and the afterlife

What Mormons Believe About:

God, man, Jesus, salvation, Bible/authority, and the afterlife

By Rev. Wil R. Hoffmann

God: All members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (LDS or Mormon Church) will tell you they believe in God and Jesus and even point out that Jesus is in the name of their church. However, just because they say they believe and worship God and Jesus, they do not believe in the Trinity as the Bible defines it, and therefore do not believe in the same God as we do. So who is God, also known as Heavenly father or Elohim, in the teachings of the LDS church?

1. God is an exalted man. Joseph Smith taught that, “God himself was once as we are now, and is an exalted man, and sits enthroned in yonder heavens!”1

This belief comes from the idea that Heavenly Father was once a man on another planet that followed the teachings of the LDS Church on his planet. After dying and going to the 3rd level of Heaven, he was given a planet to rein over by his god.

2. God is not Spirit but is a man of flesh and bone. Joseph Smith said, “That which is without body or parts is nothing. There is no God in heaven but that God who has flesh and bones.”2

3. Heavenly Father is the literal father of Jesus. President Joseph F. Smith (1838-1918) taught: “God the Eternal Father…is the literal parent of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, and of the spirits of the human race….We are God’s children.”3

This teaching is that god came down in the flesh and knew Mary to conceive Jesus.

Jesus: According to Mormon doctrine, both God and Jesus came to Joseph Smith to tell him that all denominations were false. This again points to the belief that God and Jesus are two different people. Although Jesus is in the name of the LDS church, their doctrine on Jesus is not found in the bible.

1. Jesus is not God but a god. Within the LDS church, Jesus was a man; however he became a god by his father bestowing it on him even before he came to earth. Jesus was the first-born child of Heavenly Father and one of his wives. When Heavenly Father decided to pick a savior for the people of earth, he had to choose between his first-born Jesus and his second-born Satan. Both brought their case for why they should be savior, and Heavenly Father picked Jesus.

“Christ attained Godhood while yet in pre-existence, he too stood as a God to the other spirits, but this relationship was not the same one of personal parenthood that prevailed between the Father and his offspring.”4

Because of this, Satan rebelled and left Heaven, and Jesus was sent to earth to be savior of the people.

2. Jesus needed to be saved by God. “Even Christ himself was not perfect at first; he received not a fulness [sic] at first, but he received grace for grace, and he continued to receive more and more until he received a fulness [sic]”5

3. Jesus is our Spirit brother and the brother of Satan. “The oldest child in our heavenly family was Jesus Christ. He is our oldest brother.”6

The teaching of the LDS Church is that all mankind are spirit children of Heavenly Father and his wives. Jesus was the first-born spirit child and Satan was the second-born spirit child. Through this understanding everyone is a spirit child of god and one of his wives. Therefore we are all spirit brother and sisters.

Man: Men and women are the spirit children of Heavenly Father and his wives. Man was once with God in heaven and then was sent to earth. If man follows the teachings of the LDS Church, then when he passes away he will be able to return to his heavenly father and mother.

1. Men can become gods. The understanding behind this is that man is the same species as God. Because of this, if men keep to the teachings of the LDS Church and meet the requirements established by the LDS Church, then they can be given their own planet by their Heavenly Father. “God and man are of the same race, differing only in their degrees of advancement.”7

Also, a point to note is that only men can reach godhood. Women are subject to the actions of their husbands, even to the point of their salvation.

2. Mankind was with God before they were on earth. “We lived before we came here and our birth into this world was the reward of having kept our first estate.”8 Within the LDS Church, it is commonly known that before we came to earth, we were with God in heaven. We just cannot remember that time. This is what is known as the preexistence and is historically understood that Heavenly Father conceived the people of the world with one of his many wives in heaven.

After some time in Heaven, we are picked to come to earth and forget our preexistence. Then man works his way back to God through the teachings of the LDS Church.

Bible/authority: When it comes to understand the Scriptures and authority of the LDS Church, one has to understand that the Mormon faith is, in a sense, is a living religion. Scripture and authority are always changing and can change at any time. Within the LDS Church there are four books of scripture (Holy Bible KJV, Book of Mormon, Doctrine and Covenants, and Pearl of Great Price). With these books of scripture, the LDS Church also has a Living Prophet (Thomas S. Monson) that dictates their beliefs.

1. Members of the LDS church do use the King James Bible. To many members of the LDS Church, the Holy Bible in the King James Version is their first book of scripture. However, they believe “the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly.”9

It was taught by Joseph Smith that he believed the Bible was correct when it was written by the original authors. But over time and bad translators, the Bible lost its true meaning and was corrupt and has led many astray.

So, today’s members of the LDS Church read the bible but understand it as told to them by the leadership of the Mormon Church.

2. Along with the King James Bible, the LDS Church has other scriptures. Most people know about the Book of Mormon and that it is known as “another testament of Jesus Christ.”“The Book of Mormon is a sacred record of some of the people who lived on the American continents between about 2000 B.C. and A.D. 400. It contains the fulness [sic] of the gospel of Jesus Christ. The Book of Mormon tells of the visit Jesus Christ made to the people in the Americas soon after His Resurrection.”10

This is one of the most recognized items that Mormon missionaries will have and want to give you when they come to your door. However, the King James Bible and The Book of Mormon are only two of the four books of scriptures.

The other two books are Doctrine and Covenants, and Pearl of Great Price.

Doctrine and Covenants contains “revelations given to the Prophet Joseph Smith. It also includes a few revelations given to other latter-day prophets. This book of scripture is unique because it is not a translation of ancient documents. It is a collection of revelations given by the Lord to His chosen prophets in the latter days.”11

The revelations given to the prophets are something that is still happening today. At any time the Prophet/ President of the LDS Church, Thomas Monson, can have a “revelation” that would be voted on at the LDS General Conference and then added to Doctrine and Covenants. (The last addition to Doctrine and Covenants took place on June 8, 1978, dealing with the subject of allowing all worthy males to hold the priesthood. This came because it was found out that there were no African American priesthood holders. This is because at one time it was believed that people with dark skin where not worthy to hold high positions in the church.)

The Pearl of Great Price contains the book of Moses, the book of Abraham, The Articles of Faith and some inspired writings of Joseph Smith. The inspired writings of Joseph Smith are his interpretation of the Gospel of Matthew and the History of Joseph Smith.

3. The most important authority of the LDS is the President. The Prophet, Seer, and Revelator are all names to describe the President and leader or the LDS Church. From the first Prophet Joseph Smith to the sixteenth and current Prophet Thomas S. Monson, there is no greater authority in the Mormon Church.

The trust of the leadership of the LDS Church is strong among the members. They truly believe that he is God’s called servant, and whatever is said by the Prophet through his teaching can be counted as the Word of God.

“The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints accepts four books as scripture: the Bible, the Book of Mormon, the Doctrine and Covenants, and the Pearl of Great Price. These books are called the standard works of the Church. The inspired words of our living prophets are also accepted as scripture.”12

Salvation: Salvation in the LDS church is worked based. It focuses on the work that people do for their own spiritual growth, the LDS Church, and helping others in need. For salvation in a person’s life within the LDS church, three things must be involved: 1. Works of the person; 2. Jesus; and 3. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.

1. You’re saved by grace but you also need work. In the Book of Mormon it teaches that your works are a huge part of your salvation. 2 Nephi 25:23 says, “For we know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do.” This points to the idea that the one doing most of the work is man and Jesus makes up the rest.

This belief points clearly that man has to keep the commands of God and the LDS Church to be saved. Jesus is not enough and this point is taught many times through the LDS Church.

“Many people think they need only confess that Jesus is the Christ and then they are saved by grace alone. We cannot be saved by grace alone, ‘for we know that it is by grace that we are saved after all we can do.’”13

2. You have to be a member of the LDS Church to be saved. When Joseph Smith started this new religion in the 1800’s, he preached that all other churches are wrong and have become apostate. Joseph Smith taught that he restored the one true church that had been lost since the passing of the apostles.

“If it had not been for Joseph Smith and the restoration, there would be no salvation. There is no salvation outside The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.”14

This is a key reason why LDS missionaries, even if you tell them you go to church, will still evangelize to you at your door. This is because they believe that salvation is not found outside the LDS Church.

3. Salvation can be a family thing. One of the strongest aspects of the LDS Church and one of the main reasons people convert to the Mormon faith is because of their dedication to family. Family forever is the teaching that a family, through the father, can be sealed in an LDS temple and remain together forever. Boiled down, the salvation of the family relies on the father of the family.

This position even states that if a child of a sealed family at some point stops going to church and even states he is no longer a Mormon, the sealing of the family still allows that child/ person to be with his family in Heaven.

Afterlife: When you talk to Mormons about Heaven, they will always talk about “going to be where God is.” For most people this means Heaven, but for the members of the LDS Church this means the 3rd level or the highest level of Heaven. Within Mormon doctrine they teach that there are three levels of Heaven. The Celestial Kingdom (highest, where God is.), the Terrestrial Kingdom (Middle), and the Telestial Kingdom (lowest).

With three levels of Heaven, one would assume that there would be levels of Hell. However, the LDS Church does not believe in Hell as Christian’s understand it. They believe in a place known as outer darkness, described as “where there is weeping, and wailing, and gnashing of teeth.”15 But it is just understood as a place of darkness, and only a handful of people are there.

1. God and Jesus are only in the highest level of Heaven. When it comes to the afterlife for a member of the LDS Church, they want to be where God is. Heavenly Father is only in the highest level of Heaven, the Celestial Kingdom.

The only way for a someone to reach this level of Heaven is by being a member of the Mormon Church, being allowed to enter the Temple, paying his tithes, being married and sealed to his wife/ family in the temple, and by holding the priesthood and doing works for the church.

2. The other two levels are for everyone else. Most people within an evangelical church will go to the Terrestrial Kingdom (middle or second level). This place is for those who are Christians but were not part of the LDS Church. The Terrestrial Kingdom is for almost everyone else.

3. Outer darkness only has a handful of people in it. “Outer Darkness. These are they who had testimonies of Jesus through the Holy Ghost and knew the power of the Lord but allowed Satan to overcome them. They denied the truth and defied the power of the Lord. There is no forgiveness for them, for they denied the Holy Spirit after having received it. They will not have a kingdom of glory. They will live in eternal darkness, torment, and misery with Satan and his angels forever.”16

When talking to any member of the LDS Church, they will tell you that this means only members of the LDS Church that have been given a testimony of Jesus Christ, yet have rejected that knowledge, are in outer darkness, and that number is only a handful.

Because of these statements, the realization that almost everyone is in a level of Heaven comes clear. No matter who you are or what you do, you will go to Heaven. However, Mormons work hard through their church events, outreach, and community clubs so that they may reach the 3rd level, the Celestial Kingdom where God is.

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1 Joseph Smith, Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 345.

2 Joseph Smith, Teachings of Presidents of the Church – Joseph Smith, p. 42.

3 Joseph F. Smith, “The Nature of the Godhead,” Ensign, January 2006, p. 51.

4 Bruce R. McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, 1966, p. 323

5 Joseph F. Smith, Gospel Doctrine, 1986, p. 68.

6 Gospel Fundamentals, 2002, p. 5

7 John A. Widtsoe, Rational Theology, 1915, p. 61

8 George Albert Smith, Conference Reports, October 1926, p. 103. George Albert Smith was the 8th President of the LDS church.

9 Article Eight, Articles of Faith in the Pearl of Great Price

10 Gospel Principles, 2009, p. 46

11 True to the Faith: A Gospel Reference, 2004, p. 158

12 Gospel Principles, 2009, p. 45

13 James Faust, Ensign, November 2001, p. 18

14 Bruce R. McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, 1966, p. 670

15 Doctrine and Covenants 101:91

16Gospel Principles, 2009, p. 273

An open letter to Glenn Beck…from a “monster”

Can be found on Mormonism Research Ministry (www.mrm.org) By Eric Johnson

An open letter to Glenn Beck…from a “monster”

By Eric Johnson

Note: On April 25^th, 2014, Glenn Beck addressed the student body at Liberty University (LU) at a tri-weekly gathering called “convocation.” (You can watch the talk here.) While each student must attend the service or face a $10 fine--it was no different for Beck's talk--the entire faculty and staff at Liberty were also required to attend, which doesn't always happen. (Because the arena was filled, they watched on cable television in other rooms.) Beck spoke on the history of the Bible, mentioned Joseph Smith and his “martyrdom,” and insinuated that the unique LDS teaching of preexistence is true. Later that morning, MRM published my response titled “What Glenn Beck Didn’t Explain at this Morning’s Convocation Talk.”

Within a day, we received five separate emails (four LU students and an LU professor), all saying they agreed with the article. (You can see the student posts listed at the bottom of the article linked above. In addition, a two-part blog will be published next week on Mormon Coffee that will respond to LU’s defense of the issue.) While one LU official personally told me that the university hoped this controversial issue would just fade away, Glenn Beck decided to revisit the topic in a scathing article published on May 20, 2014 titled “”A Land of Monsters’: Beck Fires Back at Those Attacking Liberty University for Inviting Him to Speak."  Instead of letting the issue die, Mr. Beck aims directly at those folks (like myself) who believed he should not have been allowed to speak on spiritual issues from a pulpit at a prestigious Christian university. With that as a background, allow me to respond as I reprint his entire article (underlined) followed by my response.

Dear Mr. Beck

I have read your May 20^th article titled ‘A Land of Monsters’: Beck Fires Back at Those Attacking Liberty University for Inviting Him to Speak.

Your staff member wrote, Glenn Beck was the featured convocation speaker at Liberty University on April 25, and it didn’t take long for critics to begin attacking the university for inviting him to speak. But Beck said on his radio program Tuesday that many of the attacks haven’t actually come from the left.

The words "attacks" and “attacking”. . . what exactly did your writer mean by that? Wouldn’t you consider these loaded words? Johnnie Moore, the senior vice president of LU who serves directly under President Jerry Falwell, Jr., told me that he received about 20 emails concerning your visit. Apparently all but one criticized Liberty's choice. (The only one who wrote to agree was written by an LDS student who attends LU--go figure!) Why was there such an uproar? I think this quote from your talk epitomized what the writers felt was wrong:

I share your faith. I am from a different denomination, and a denomination quite honestly that I'm sure can make many people at Liberty feel uncomfortable. I am a Mormon, but I share your faith in the atonement of the Savior Jesus Christ.

One of the writers shared her letter with me (her name is taken out, but otherwise it is intact):

Dear Johnnie Moore,

My name is ______________ and I am a former student of Liberty University. I still have many friends at LU and so I usually see the LU news on my facebook, the most recent being Glenn Beck's speech in convocation. With all due respect, Sir, leaving Mr. Beck's words without explanation is extremely detrimental to your students' faith and blurs the line between Christianity and Mormonism, which cannot be combined. Let me briefly explain:

I have grown up in a very Mormonized part of Idaho. I have worked in theatre companies that are almost exclusively Mormon. In my junior year I transferred to Liberty from a college where I was one of only six non-Mormons in the entire department (professors included). Friends at LU asked what a Mormon was and I was utterly shocked! The Mormon temple is less than two minutes from my house - “Holiness to the Lord, the House of the Lord” is written on its steeple while the angel Moroni stands blowing his golden trumpet at the peak. In short, I understand Mormonism. I speak Mormon. Sir, what is so deceptive about this particular religion is that it uses the same vocabulary as Christianity, but it has different definitions. When they say “Jesus,” it is not the same Jesus. When they say “salvation,” it is not the same salvation. When they say “heaven,” you must ask, “Which one?” (There are three heavens and you can't get to the top one unless you're married, either in this life or the afterlife.) At the risk of sounding harsh, Mormonism is a very sneaky and deceptive religion which hijacks Christianity in a very clever way: by masquerading as Christianity.

I remember Mormons animatedly insisting that they were NOT Christian - they were MORMON. Now the tide has turned, as it so often does in Mormonism. It is now the goal of Mormonism to be accepted as a mainstream Christian denomination. Glenn Beck, in his convo speech, included himself as part of a Christian denomination, and to uninformed LU students, it probably sounded like he was just that.

The message in Eric Johnson's article - "What Glenn Beck didn't explain at yesterday morning's convocation talk at Liberty University" - is exactly what myself and many other students tried to express to LU faculty last year before Mitt Romney gave the commencement speech - the closing cap at "the biggest Christian university in the world." Christians over here in the West spend much time trying to unravel Mormonism for Mormon people, many of whom don't even know the history of their own church. Please understand that when Liberty University – “the biggest Christian university in the world” - asks a Mormon leader to speak, knowing that his words sound dangerously Christian, it undoes everything Christians over here in the West (and even in the East) have tried to do. In Mormon eyes, it equates Mormonism and Christianity. To Mormons, when “the biggest Christian university in the world” accepts Mormon speakers (especially as a commencement speaker), it is an affirmation of Mormonism as Christianity.

Sir, as a recent Liberty student who understands the predicament of the West, I beg you to differentiate between these two religions. I love my Mormon friends - they are wonderful people - but to equate Mormonism and Christianity is to adopt heresy. Once more, it is heresy that uses the same vocabulary but different definitions – a wolf in sheep's clothing, if you will. Mormonism Research Ministry has graciously offered to speak on this very topic at no charge, and as a university that cites Mormonism as a cult in their theology courses, I think it would be a huge step in the right direction if Liberty were to take them up on that offer.

Thank you for your time.

Sincerely,

__________________

Mr. Beck, how exactly should this woman's words be attributed as an “attack” on Liberty? It sounds to me that, while there certainly is a disagreement, this is anything but an “attack.” What this lady did is how civilized people let the leaders of an institution know when they disagree with their actions. Sending emails and letters along with making phone calls is a right we have. As a parent of a 2014 Liberty grad, I have this same right, as do those who don't have any connections at all with LU. The word “attack” should be reserved for the actions of lynch mobs or terrorists. Of course, I am not privy to the other correspondence sent to LU, but I would think that the letter above is very typical of the criticism communicated to the university. 

Perhaps you didn't intend to focus your barb at the lady above but rather were thinking more about Christian apologists like me. Please understand, my criticism was not aimed so much at you as it was the leadership of the school. You have every right to say what you want. You certainly took full advantage at Liberty’s last convocation to speak on a topic that was sure to rile the critics who take their Christianity seriously.  In fact, you admitted at the beginning of your talk that you had changed your message from what you origianlly planned to say.

According to the LU administration, what you said about your Mormonism surprised them. They claimed that they had no idea you would speak about Mormons belonging to a “different denomination,” the integrity of Joseph Smith, or the assumption that preexistence is true. After all, they don't require the speakers to submit an outline of their talks, so maybe they shouldn't have been surprised. However, I think you are well-versed in the differences between our faiths to know that most people wouldn’t catch the subtleties. When your company live-streamed your sermon and made it available for everyone in the world to see, you had to know that there would be some out there who would be better versed in Mormonism than the audience in that Liberty arena. Could it be that you knew your talk would generate controversy? It almost seems that way, which doesn't appear very thoughful if you really cared about the school and the leaders there who continue to speak so highly of you. The university, not you, has taken most of the flak. Until now.

You are right that the criticism originated from those in Christian circles who probably hold very similar values as you. For instance, politically, you and I are much closer than many, as I too am conservative. Socially, we would agree on issues like abortion and homosexual marriage. Spiritually, though, we are worlds apart. Just as you probably wouldn’t consider your disagreement with Obamacare, liberal legislation, and independent judicial rulings as “attacks,” please don’t label our disagreement with Liberty officials in the same way. You and I may not see eye-to-eye on certain issues, but as human beings and fellow Americans, may I please request that you have more respect by allowing for differences and dealing with these at a table of dialogue? It is you who seems to be on the "attack," as you begin your article by using "land of monsters," a negative remark about those with whom you disagree. Could we agree to avoid the ad hominem attacks in future dialogue so we can focus on the issues at hand? 

“Liberty University is being smeared, absolutely smeared, and they’re being smeared by religious people [who] claim to be followers of Christ,” Beck remarked. “Now, I’ve read the Bible several times, and I just can’t find the place where Jesus hates.”

I had to reread this several times  just to make sure I understood what you were trying to say. “Absolutely smeared”? You need to provide evidence that a “smear” campaign was attempted by “religious people." A more complete explanation combined with evidence to support your accusation is necessary to validate your claim.

Then you say that you've "read the Bible several times, and I just can’t find the place where Jesus hates.” Allow me to provide three passages--one from each Sypnotic Gospel writer--quoting Jesus who was dealing with the religious leaders of his day: 

Mark 12:38-42:

As he taught, Jesus said, “Watch out for the teachers of the law. They like to walk around in flowing robes and be greeted with respect in the marketplaces, and have the most important seats in the synagogues and the places of honor at banquets. They devour widows’ houses and for a show make lengthy prayers. These men will be punished most severely.”

Luke 11:37-52:

When Jesus had finished speaking, a Pharisee invited him to eat with him; so he went in and reclined at the table. But the Pharisee was surprised when he noticed that Jesus did not first wash before the meal. Then the Lord said to him, “Now then, you Pharisees clean the outside of the cup and dish, but inside you are full of greed and wickedness. You foolish people! Did not the one who made the outside make the inside also? But now as for what is inside you—be generous to the poor, and everything will be clean for you. “Woe to you Pharisees, because you give God a tenth of your mint, rue and all other kinds of garden herbs, but you neglect justice and the love of God. You should have practiced the latter without leaving the former undone. . . . “Woe to you experts in the law, because you have taken away the key to knowledge. You yourselves have not entered, and you have hindered those who were entering.”

Matthew 23:1ff

Then Jesus said to the crowds and to his disciples: “The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat. So you must be careful to do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach. They tie up heavy, cumbersome loads and put them on other people’s shoulders, but they themselves are not willing to lift a finger to move them. . . . 

“Woe to you, blind guides! You say, ‘If anyone swears by the temple, it means nothing; but anyone who swears by the gold of the temple is bound by that oath.’ You blind fools! . . . “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You give a tenth of your spices—mint, dill and cumin. But you have neglected the more important matters of the law—justice, mercy and faithfulness. You should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the former. You blind guides! You strain out a gnat but swallow a camel. “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You clean the outside of the cup and dish, but inside they are full of greed and self-indulgence. Blind Pharisee! First clean the inside of the cup and dish, and then the outside also will be clean. . . . You are like whitewashed tombs, which look beautiful on the outside but on the inside are full of the bones of the dead and everything unclean. In the same way, on the outside you appear to people as righteous but on the inside you are full of hypocrisy and wickedness. . . . “You snakes! You brood of vipers! How will you escape being condemned to hell?

I would agree that Jesus didn't use hate speech to put the Pharisees in their place. Yet how many liberals would consider Jesus’s mere disagreement and choice words as somehow hateful and even contradicting what He said in Matthew 7:1? Indeed Jesus was quite colorful in calling human beings—if Mormonism’s view of preexistence is true, they too are “children of God”— “blind guides,” “hypocrites,” “child(ren) of hell,” “fools,” “whitewashed tombs” “full of the bones of the dead,” “full of hypocrisy and wickedness,” “snakes,” “brood of vipers,” and ultimately people who are “condemned to hell." Reread the letter from the former student above and then look over Jesus’s words once more. Is it really fair to say that LU (or even you) has been “smeared”? Something tells me there is no comparison. The Jesus you picture, meek and mild, just doesn't hold water when the facts are entertained, even though this goes against the popular conception that the Savior would have never criticized anyone.

Beck said there’s a group of people who identify themselves as Christians, but always seem to “have a problem” with him and men like historian David Barton.

I’m not sure how Christian historian David Barton has anything to do with your speaking at LU. Yes, the critics of LU are Christians who are very concerned about Liberty's policy of allowing a Latter-day Saint using religious jargon and emotional language to make Mormonism sound the same as the Christianity taught by the Bible department at LU. You may still feel that the critics are without reason for their criticism. If so, allow me to use a passage from the Bible (2 John 7-11) to provide more detail: 

I say this because many deceivers, who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh, have gone out into the world. Any such person is the deceiver and the antichrist. Watch out that you do not lose what we have worked for, but that you may be rewarded fully. Anyone who runs ahead and does not continue in the teaching of Christ does not have God; whoever continues in the teaching has both the Father and the Son. If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not take them into your house or welcome them. Anyone who welcomes them shares in their wicked work.

Let’s dissect these verses. First of all, John warns against deceivers in the same way Jesus did in Matthew 7:15, which says:

“Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves.”

Jesus said we will know these false teachers by their fruit. And then, in 2 John 7, we see that wrong doctrine is “bad” fruit. You may read verse 7 and, with a smile, say, “But Mormons do believe that Jesus came in the flesh.” Literally, this is true, as your leaders have taught the Jesus came to this earth through the Virgin Birth, a direct result of a physical union between Elohim (Heavenly Father) and Mary. (For those doubting what I am saying, please see herefor more details.) Mormonism's view of Jesus is much different than what is taught at LU, which has been admitted by your leadership. For example, one of your former apostles had this to say about the differences:

“And virtually all the millions of apostate Christendom have abased themselves before the mythical throne of a mythical Christ whom they vainly suppose to be a spirit essence who is incorporeal uncreated, immaterial and three-in-one with the Father and Holy Spirit” (Bruce R. McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, 1966, p. 269).

Consider what fifteenth President Gordon B. Hinckley had to say:

“In bearing testimony of Jesus Christ, President Hinckley spoke of those outside the Church who say Latter-day Saints ‘do not believe in the traditional Christ.’ ‘No, I don’t. The traditional Christ of whom they speak is not the Christ of whom I speak. For the Christ of whom I speak has been revealed in this the Dispensation of the Fulness of Times. He together with His Father, appeared to the boy Joseph Smith in the year 1820, and when Joseph left the grove that day, he knew more of the nature of God than all the learned ministers of the gospel of the ages’” (“Crown of Gospel is Upon Our Heads, Church News, June 20, 1998, p. 7).

Four years later he said,

“As a church we have critics, many of them. They say we do not believe in the traditional Christ of Christianity. There is some sub­stance to what they say” (“We look to Christ,” Ensign (Conference Edition), May 2002, p. 90).

I agree with your general authorities in saying that the Jesus of Mormonism is different than the Jesus worshipped by millions of Christians around the world. Because this is true, what is John’s advice? He said that those teaching such a false gospel should not be allowed in the "house." What does this mean? Should Christians invite the missionaries into their homes? The context of the day gives a different perspective. Because the Christians in those early days met in homes, very similar to our Sunday church services today, they were not supposed to let false teachers introduce heretical doctrines from the pulpits. Doing so, verse 11 says, is the same as “shar(ing) in their wicked work.” Thus, John is instructing the churches to keep the sheep (Christians) safe by not allowing any wolves to share their corrupt philosophies.

I realize that Liberty officials do not think their convocation is the same as a “chapel” or “worship” service. It is a place, Mr. Moore has written, that allows for a variety of viewpoints. Yet musical worship to God, combined with prayer before and after the talk, play major roles in all convocation services where the pulpit (although LU officials don’t like that term, I'll still use it) is given over to someone like you, Mr. Beck. You changed whatever message you originally were going to bring so you could present what turned out to be a confusing talk, leaving many students thinking that Mormonism and their Christianity were one and the same. Shame on Liberty's administrators for allowing students to possibly walk away convinced that your spiritual view is aligned with theirs. And shame on you for taking advantage of the situation.

“I want to make it really, really super clear: there is no difference between the people who are currently trying to take down Liberty University because they’re ‘not Christian enough,’ or me because I’m ‘not a Christian,’ [and] the people who are trying to run other people out of the square.”

This is nothing more than rhetoric. How can our belief that you shouldn't have been allowed to taken the pulpit at LU be the same as running “people out of the square"? You have every right to talk about your political and spiritual views. (In fact, you have dedicated whole television shows to Book of Mormon issues.) Your platform is your “square" and you have every right to your beliefs. However, the administrators at the largest Christian university in the world had the right to (or not to) invite you to speak to their students. They chose to let you come, and it is my opinion that this was not a wise choice. Still, nobody is running you out of the "square."

Think about it this way, Mr. Beck. What are the possibilities that I could speak at your church’s next general conference? What do you mean that I would never be allowed? Isn't this discriminatory? Yes, it is, and your leaders have every right to discriminate! In the same way Liberty’s officials should have been more discriminatory in who they allow to speak at convocation on spiritual topics. And asking the university's officials to not allow someone from another religion to address the student body on spiritual issues is well within our (my) rights.

“This is why your churches are dwindling,” Beck continued. “You think you’re standing for something, when indeed, you’re standing for hate and bigotry. I think Jesus was hanging out with prostitutes and sinners, wasn’t he? You won’t even listen to a man who says … ‘I challenge you to know your faith, not my faith, your faith so well that you’re willing to die for it. Stand with one another.’ That frightens you so much? If it does, you might want to consider that you’re on the wrong side.”

Mr. Beck, you lose me when you trot out the “hate” card. For Pete’s sake, you sound more like a political liberal than the conservative you are supposed to be. Should I take your disagreement against me (and my position that Liberty shouldn’t have invited you to speak) as hateful? You can’t win with the hate card and I suggest hanging up this stale maneuver once and for all.

As far as Jesus “hanging out” with prostitutes and sinners, these were the folks who knew they were lost as they often beat their chests in seeking repentance. They understood that forgiveness could only come through a contrite heart and they recognized they were sinners. Forgiveness cannot come without the understanding that we have fallen way short of the glory of God. (Rom. 3:23)

This brings me to a quote from Mr. Moore, as reported by the Religion News Service article published on Monday, May 19. He said that “many conservative evangelical leaders who are closer to Beck than me have told me that they believe Beck has had a born again experience recently. “

Mr. Beck, is this true? (You would know better than anyone else, right?) Do you believe that you have had a “born again” experience?  I would love to see you become a Christian, yet in your talk, you clearly stated that you remain a “Mormon.” To support this, you spoke highly of Mormonism's founder Joseph Smith--a man who repudiated the basic beliefs of the historic Christian faith--and you uphold the doctrine of the "first estate" (preexistence). Correct me if I’m wrong, but I am betting that you would fully agree with Smith who said that “being born again comes by the Spirit of God through ordinances.” (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 162)

Let me ask a few other questions to get more clairty:

• Do you believe water baptism is necessary for salvation?
• Do you beleive that a person must get a temple recommend and get sealed for not only time but eternity?
• Do you think drinking tea or coffee should prohibit a person from going to the temple? 

If your answers are all affirmative, then what exactly do you think Mr. Moore means when he suggests you have had a recent “born again experience"? If you have left Mormonism and become a born again Christian, let us all know. If he's wrong, perhaps you might want to clarify this issue with him so he doesn't assume something that is not true. There are sins of commission, but there are also sins of ommission. 

Beck said America is “turning into a land of monsters.”

“I look at every single lover of light and truth as my ally, my friend, my brother,” he said. “I look at everyone who is my enemy as my brother. I don’t care what you say; I don’t care what you think your belief is; I don’t care what your lifestyle is — you’re not going to change me. And I invite you to join me, join others of multiple faiths — never asking anyone to change their faith — asking you to strengthen your faith, whatever it is.”

Do you believe President Obama is your brother? (I’ve heard your show before and you’ve said some pretty harsh things about our nation's President.) And if I were to ask Mr. Obama what he thought of you, would he call you a "monster"? Yes, it goes both ways. By calling your enemy a "brother," are you referring to nothing more than Mormoism's teaching that all people are spirit brothers and sisters going back to the preexistence? Or do you mean that as brothers we should all agree with one another? A little more clarity here would be appreciated in your response.

Beck said he wants “nothing to do with you” if your religion is telling you to “kill people, burn their books, shut them up, torture them, imprison them.”

Are you serious? How did my disagreement with Liberty's invitation to you create me into a “monster” who wants to “kill people, burn (your) books, shut (you) up, torture (you), imprison (you).” Sounds like the type of rhetoric offered by the Nazis in the early 1930s! See, this is what waving the hate card does to a person. If disagreement with someone leads to this type of accusation, then perhaps you need to look in the mirror yourself, Mr. Beck, when giving such a diatribe, as your words should also apply to you as well. As Matthew 19 as quoted above mentions, hypocrites are not favored by Jesus!

“[But] if your faith says: learn about love, learn about goodness, learn about the power of faith, learn about the miracles of God … I’d love to meet you,” he said. “And I’d love to be around you.”

Let’s have lunch, Mr. Beck, and discuss this in a civil manner. Let’s lay the differences on the table and, using good communication tactics, fairly explain why we disagree. Let's stay away from good cop, bad cop. Instead, let's determine the strength of our ideas based on the evidence we can provide. Meanwhile, stereotypes and flamboyant language should be left on the porch outside.

Liberty University has also stood by its decision to invite Beck to speak. An email from the office of Johnnie Moore, senior vice-president for communications and assistant to the president at Liberty University, was posted at Religion News Service.

“College is about learning,” the email read. “How can you defend what you believe if you don’t understand what others believe?  I believe our students are stronger in their faith because of our convocation speaker series and the wide diversity of views that they have been privileged to hear in person over the last few decades.”

As I wrote earlier, my response to this (and other quotes) given by Liberty University will be posted on Mormon Coffee in a two-part series beginning Monday, May 26.

As I close, I want to reiterate once more that I hold no animosity against you or Liberty University. Know that I don’t hate you, as I actually pray for your salvation. Until that day comes, though, I cannot accept nor endorse a policy that allows someone with heretical views to address my daughter and her fellow Christian students from a pulpit, especially when the backdrop reads "Training Champions for Christ." Because I believe that Mormonism is not the same as Christianity, I will continue to defend this idea as long as our nation upholds our First Amendment rights. After reading this, I hope you still don’t consider me to be a monster, just as I don't consider you to be one either. We just disagree.

Sincerely,

Eric Johnson

Mormonism Research Ministry

Was Joseph Smith Really a Prophet from God?

From http://www.equip.org/perspectives/was-joseph-smith-really-a-prophet-from-god/

WAS JOSEPH SMITH A PROPHET?- Introduction
Joseph Smith, the founder of the Mormon church, claimed to be a prophet of God.  Was he?

WAS JOSEPH SMITH A PROPHET?- Smith’s Vision
In determining whether Joseph Smith was a prophet of God we need first to look at Smith’s so-called “first vision,” in which God supposedly instructed the would-be prophet to start a new church — what was to become the Mormon church.  The evidence shows, however that Smith’s testimony suffers from a host of internal discrepancies.  For example, the earliest recorded account of Smith’s “first vision” makes mention only of Jesus Christ, whereas other accounts report the appearance of both Jesus and God the Father, or of an angel, or a group of angels.  Whatever the case may be, it’s clear to see that such conflicting reports only serve to cast doubt on the veracity of Smith’s testimony.  Keep in mind that several of these accounts came from the same man — Joseph Smith himself.

WAS JOSEPH SMITH A PROPHET?- Prophetic Accuracy
Turning now to prophetic accuracy, we find that Smith fares no better than he did in recounting his alleged encounter with God.  According to Deuteronomy 18:22, God’s prophets have a one hundred percent rate of accuracy — that is to say, their prophetic predictions never miss the mark.  Unfortunately for Smith, such standards proved too much for him.  We note, for example, that Smith predicted that a Mormon temple in Missouri would be constructed before all of the people living in 1832 pass away.  This did not occur.

WAS JOSEPH SMITH A PROPHET?- A Different god?
But even if Smith were flawless in all his predictions (which certainly was not the case), according to Deuteronomy 13:1-3 he would still not qualify as a prophet of God because he was speaking for a false god — a god other than the One revealed in Scripture.  The facts lead us to draw only one conclusion: that Joseph Smith was indeed a prophet, but a false prophet.  And remember, the irony is that is was Joseph Smith who attacked Christianity by saying that all its teachers were corrupt.

On Joseph Smith and the question “Was Joseph Smith a Prophet?”, that’s the CRI Perspective.  I’m Hank Hanegraaff.

Who Created Everything???

As I think about the creation of the world, I think about all the things that God has done.  From the snow that lay on the ground now to the birds that sing and the air which we breath, God created it all. 

In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth.  Gen 1:1 (ESV)

Like The Bible say; “God Created”.  But I look to the LDS religion to see what they believe in this area.  I remember that the LDS do clam to have the bible in there canon and even in the Articles of Faith is says; 

“We believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly…” (Article Eight, Articles of Faith).

So then I look at creation and I think to myself, “Is there some we can agree on?”  Well again there is no because we do not agree on creation because of all the LDS reading I have done, the LDS do not believe in creation as told in the Bible. 

I know, I know… the LDS clam to believe the Bible and where is say, “God Created” but that is not what is taught by LDS in there own works.  Let us look at what the teachers of LDS theology says;

“God never made something out of nothing; it is not in the economy or law by which the worlds were, are, or will exist. There is an eternity before us, and it is full of matter; and if we but understand enough of the Lord and his ways, we would say that he took of this matter and organized the earth from it. How long has been organized it is not for me to say, and I do not care anything about it” (Brigham Young, May 14, 1871, Journal of Discourses 14:116).

God never made?  But Genesis says He created. 

When Christians talk about God creating the Heavens and Earth, we believe He created all things.  And I mean ALL THINGS. 

“AND then the Lord said: Let us go down. And they went down at the beginning, and they, that is the Gods, organized and formed the heavens and the earth” (Abraham 4:1).

Again, Christians believe that God Created not organized and formed the world. 

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning. 3 All things were created through Him, and apart from Him not one thing was created that has been created.  John 1:1-3 (HCSB)

The Gospel of John makes it clear that ALL THINGS were created through Jesus Christ.  Not formed and organized.

So was the earth created or just organized?  Do we believe the Bible (which the LDS clam they do) or believe man? 

What Happens When A Mormon is Shown the Truth?

 

When the truth is shown to you, one should believe and not turn away because that’s how they were raised.  To many times I talk with people in the LDS faith and this is the type of things I hear.  Even when I show them facts for their own books, they are still clouded by the lies that they have been told all their lives.

I pray that the people in this video and other Mormons look more into the history of the LDS church and the writings of the early church leaders because as soon as you do, you will see that the begging LDS was total different then what it is today.   

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Our Relationship with the Lord by Bruce R. McConkie

Today I took the time to read a copy of Bruce McConkie’s 1982 BYU Devotional entitled “Our Relationship with the Lord.”  AS I read this 22 page paper I was blown away by what was written by the Apostle.  Every time I talk to a Mormon about them believing or worshipping Christ, one of the biggest answers I get is, “Yes… I mean the name of our church has Jesus in it.” 

But what did Bruce McConkie say about Jesus Christ? 

“We worship the Father and him only and no one else. We do not worship the Son and we do not worship the Holy Ghost.”

This Statement surprised me because I believed that the Mormon Church did worship Jesus.  I mean they did name the Church after Him.  We clearly have here that Bruce McConkie telling the people of the LDS faith that, “We worship the Father and him only and no one else.”   

But is that all… NOOOOOOOO!!!! What else did I find in this Devotional, well that Bruce McConkie taught that Jesus work off His salvation.  Point 5 in this devotional it states, “Christ worked out his own salvation by worshipping the Father.” 

WOW JESUS WORK OFF HIS SALVATION!!!

In another part he writes, “After all of this he was called upon to work out his own salvation”. 

But this make since seeing as most Mormons are trying to work their way to Heaven.  So even at the beginning there is not a since of grace of God to save when the Son has to be saved and work to be saved himself. 

The devotional comes to the conclusion with Bruce McConkie telling the people of the LDS faith that they don’t need to have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ. 

“To single out one member of the Godhead for a Special relationship, the Father, not the Son, would be the one to choose.”  and “Our relationship with the Son is one of brother or sister in the pre-mortal…”

Mormons, this is why we see and call you non-Christians.  When you take Jesus and make Him a man who has to work for His own salvation, its wrong.  Jesus is God, not a God but God. 

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning. 3 All things were created through Him, and apart from Him not one thing was created that has been created. 4 Life was in Him, and that life was the light of men. 5 That light shines in the darkness, yet the darkness did not overcome  it. John 1:1-5 (HCSB)

We Bible Believing Christians understand that Jesus is God and we need to have that relationship with Him.  Jesus saves us from our Sin by the blood be shed on the cross for us.  This is a gift that was given to us.  We can not work our way to Heaven because we can never pay for the sins we commit.  I proudly Worship Jesus because He is my God and my LORD (John 20:28). 

Look to the teachings of you teachers my Mormon friends and then look to the Bible for the truth.  It will set you free.

END OF LINE… 

Can a Christian believe that the Father is a great pumpkin in the sky?

Posted on January 12, 2012 by Aaron Shafovaloff on http://blog.mrm.org

Is a Christian someone who believes in a person named “Christ”, no matter what attributes they think of this person or his Father having? This will sound like a silly and irreverent thought-experiment, but hear me out, as this is intended to draw out a principle:

If someone said they believed in the historical life, death, and resurrection of the person of Jesus Christ, but said that this person’s Father was a great pumpkin in the sky, would that person still legitimately be considered a Christian?

I asked that very question to a panel of Mormon scholars once, and one answered yes (preferring such a person to be called a “heretical Christian”), and another answered no (referring to Jesus’ statement in John 10:30, “I and the Father are one”). Of course, no Mormon believes that the Father is “a great pumpkin in the sky”, but it does seem Mormons tend to believe that the title of “Christian” should be granted to anyone who claims the person of “Christ”, no matter what attributes they think this person (or his Father) have. The conditions are understandably minimal: this person believes in Christ’s death, burial, and resurrection, and this person believes in Christ’s “divinity” (however a person chooses to define that).

Traditional Christianity seems to have an unspoken, hidden qualification: such a person lacks what we might call “defeater-beliefs”. Believing that God is a unicorn or is the Xenu of Scientology would be safe examples. Does Mormonism simply deny the idea of “defeater-beliefs” altogether, beliefs which would disqualify someone’s status as “Christian”? Have Mormons primarily done this to make it easier to justify their own status as “Christian”, or are there any compelling reasons they have from scripture and reason? Even those rare Mormons who believe that Jesus was a sinner seem to be embraced as fellow Mormons. Is there simply no limit to what a “Christian” can believe beyond what is considered the minimum requirement?

The heart of my question for Mormons is whether the attributes and identity of Jesus and the Father matter with respect to the theological and spiritual definition of “Christian”. This of course is relevant to evangelical Christians, who don’t recognize as “Christian” those who believe the Father was once perhaps a mere mortal sinful man, or that he is potentially one among many in a larger genealogy of Gods. In fact, we happen to believe that these “defeater-beliefs” compromise the very nature and content of basic Christian beliefs, in an inevitably integrated and interconnected way. Call us bigoted, call us hateful, call us arbitrarily exclusive, but if someone believes that the Father is a great pumpkin in the sky, we don’t recognize them as Christian.

The Fall was Good?

Last night as I was looking through my 1979 copy of Gospel Principles, I find myself reading about Adam and Eve and the fall.  Now I have looked into this before and have heard of that the LDS church teaches that the fall was a good thing but I had never actually took the time to study it. The main reason is that I never could believe that a group that claims they worship God could say that sin was a good thing.  But The teachings of the Mormon church does say that the fall of Adam and Eve, sin, was a good thing. 

This is what it says in Gospel Principles;

“Some people believe that Adam and Eve committed a serious sin when they ate of the tree of knowledge of good and evil. However, latter-day scriptures help us understand that their fall was a necessary step in the plan of life and a great blessing to all mankind” (Gospel Principles, 1979, p. 31). 

Now this one quote was not has hard to read then some of the quotes from Mormons teaching that parse sin. 

  “ADAM AND EVE REJOICED IN THE FALL. Before partaking of the fruit Adam could have lived forever; therefore, his status was one of immortality. When he ate, he became subject to death, and therefore he became mortal. This was a transgression of the law, but not a sin in the strict sense, for it was something that Adam and Eve had to do! I am sure that neither Adam nor Eve looked upon it as a sin, when they learned the consequences, and this is discovered in their words after they learned the consequences” (Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation 1:115. See also The Pearl of Great Price Student Manual Religion 327, p. 13).

“We and all mankind are forever blessed because of Eve’s great courage and wisdom. By partaking of the fruit first, she did what needed to be done. Adam was wise enough to do likewise” (Russell M. Nelson, “Constancy amid Change,” Ensign, Nov. 1993, p. 34).

“Some may regret that our first parents sinned. This is nonsense. If we had been there, and they had not sinned, we should have sinned. I will not blame Adam or Eve, why? Because it was necessary that sin should enter into the world; no man could ever understand the principle of exaltation without its opposite; no one could ever receive an exaltation without being acquainted with its opposite. How did Adam and Eve sin? Did they come out in direct opposition to God and to His government? No. But they transgressed a command of the Lord, and through that transgression sin came into the world. The Lord knew they would do this, and He had designed that they should.” (Brigham Young, June 10-13, 1864, Journal of Discourses 10:312).

Brigham Young stated that God designed that they would sin.  This me wonder why God would ever tell not to eat of the tree in the first place. 

Christian understand that sin is wrong and has always been wrong.  even the Mormons teach that  Satan and his followers sinned in Heaven and turned on God and was punished but they look at Adams sin and say it was a good thing?  this does not make any since at all? 

The Bible makes it clear that sin is wrong.  Sodom and Gomorrah was destroyed because of there sins and people have died because they have sin ageist God.  If sin was apart of God’s plan then why would we need to be forgiven of sin. 

Even the book of Mormon makes it clear that sin is wrong;

  “And I say unto you again that he cannot save them in their sins; for I cannot deny his word, and he hath said that no unclean thing can inherit the kingdom of heaven; therefore, how can ye be saved, except ye inherit the kingdom of heaven? Therefore, ye cannot be saved in your sins” (The Book of Mormon, Alma 11:37).

Sin can’t save or be part of God’s plan.  The whole idea of God is that he is perfect and that sin is us going ageist God.  He would not set us for us to sin to move is plans along. 

If we believe that Adam’s sin was good and needed to be done, that would  take away for the great and powerful will of God. We have to understand that God does not need us to move His plan and He does not need us to sin to let His plan happen.  God is God and we are just man.  He is our creator and we can not change His plan.

God, Your Will Be Done!!!  Not mine.

Sin is not good any time or any reason. Jesus went to the cross because of sin and died because of the sin that we commit. 

8 The one who commits sin is of the Devil, for the Devil has sinned from the beginning. The Son of God was revealed for this purpose: to destroy the Devil’s works. 9 Everyone who has been born of God does not sin, because His seed remains in him; he is not able to sin, because he has been born of God. 10 This is how God’s children—and the Devil’s children—are made evident.       1 John 3:8-10 (HCSB)

END OF LINE…

He Said What!?!?

The Bible tells us time and time again not to boast about ourselves and things that we have done but only to boast in the LORD. 

3 Do not boast so proudly, or let arrogant ⌊words⌋ come out of your mouth, for the Lord is a God of knowledge, and actions are weighed by Him.  1 Sam 2:3 (HCSB)

23 This is what the Lord says:
The wise man must not boast in his wisdom; the strong man must not boast in his strength; the wealthy man must not boast in his wealth. 24 But the one who boasts should boast in this, that he understands and knows Me — that I am the Lord, showing faithful love, justice, and righteousness on the earth, for I delight in these things. ⌊This is⌋ the Lord’s declaration. Jer 9:23-24 (HCSB)

This is something that is strongly understood in the Christian faith and if and when pastor and others have boasted about things they have done, they have been or should be called on them. 

But as I write this I think of a quote from Joseph Smith that not only did he boast but claimed he did better then Jesus…

“I have more to boast of than ever any man had. I am the only man that has ever been able to keep a whole church together since the days of Adam. A large majority of the whole have stood by me. Neither Paul, John, Peter, nor Jesus ever did it. I boast that no man ever did such a work as I” (Joseph Smith, May 26, 1844, History of the Church 6:408-409).

HE SAID WHAT!?!?

Now if a pastor/leader in any Christian church said something like this, they would be called a heretic.  To say that one has done more to keep the church together then Christ like Joseph Smith did is unthinkable. 

I mean Jesus is God and saying that one has done anything better then God… well I just can put it into words. 

END OF LINE…

Time for a Change

So this past weekend, I was blessed to take part in the Utah-Idaho Southern Baptist Convention 47th Annual Convention.   This meeting was a huge blessing. I was able to hear a lot of good preaching and was able to think about a lot of things. 

Over the time I was there to hear what we need to do, God smacked me around a little and gave me a path, goal, and information that I needed to grow His kingdom in the Duchesne area and the areas around.  Now this will move people, move them to get off their butts and work or will get them to move their butts to want me out.  but no matter what happens, I will do all things through the power and truth of Jesus Christ.

This is just the start, stay with me, follow me and see how God changes this very lost state.

PS. thank you to Bruce T. for going with me and seeing the vision too.

END OF LINE

Are we Different?

So over the weeks I have seen a lot of LDS bloggers and others complain about how Christians say that Mormons “have a different Jesus” or “Don’t have the Jesus of the Bible”. Well as most Christians and pastors and people who look into the difference in the two beliefs, they understand this to be truth. This is one of the reasons Christians are called anti-Mormon, but it’s not anti-Mormon it’s fact. We believe in two different God the father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit. Also we believe in two different origins of man. In a attempt to make it clear, here is a chart that I have used from the book “Mormonism Unmasked”.

One God of the Bible	Plural Gods of Mormonism
God The Father
Infinite	Finite
Always God	Became God
Absolutely Holy	Achieved Holiness
All Knowing	Achieved Knowledge
Eternal Perfect	Achieved Perfection
All Powerful	Attained Power
Only Creator	One of Many Designers
The Son (Jesus)
Eternal	Procreated by God and Wife
Creator	Our Brother
The Holy Spirit
Eternal	Procreated By God and Wife
Creator	A Spirit Brother
Human
Created on Earth	Same Species as God
Spiritually Adopted Children	Born to God and Wife

When you look at this you can see that there are two different things. That’s why we say the LDS has two different God, Jesus, and Holy Spirit.

END OF LINE…

Teachings of Thomas S. Monson (Part 3)

It has been a week and a half since my last post on the teachings of Thomas S. Monson, but I am back. I did not want anyone to think I have given up. By the way, how has your reading been? You know, I asked you to read a Christian book as I read this one. Is anyone doing it? Let me know.

So today I want to talk about the section on Eternal Life that starts on page 101 but the quote I want to look at is on page 102 paragraph 2.

“Eternal Life in the kingdom of our Father is your goal. Such a goal is not achieved in one glorious attempt, but rather is the result of a lifetime of righteousness, an accumulation of wise choices, even a constancy of purpose. Like the coveted “A” grade on a report card of a difficult a required college course, the reward of eternal life requires effort.” (“Decisions Determine Destiny,” LDS Student Association Young Women’s Meetings, Logan, Utah, May 16, 1968)

Now is this what the bible says? NO NO NO

39 Then one of the criminals hanging there began to yell insults at Him: “Aren’t You the Messiah? Save Yourself and us!” 40 But the other answered, rebuking him: “Don’t you even fear God, since you are undergoing the same punishment? 41 We are punished justly, because we’re getting back what we deserve for the things we did, but this man has done nothing wrong.” 42 Then he said, “Jesus, remember me when You come into Your kingdom!” 43 And He said to him, “I assure you: Today you will be with Me in paradise.” Luke 23:39-43 (HCSB)

Here we have the showing that Jesus gave salvation, in one glorious action to a criminal. No life time of righteousness, no good works, not sealed in a temple, no nothing. The Criminal just asked and he received eternal life.

16 “For God loved the world in this way: He gave His One and Only Son, so that everyone who believes in Him will not perish but have eternal life. John 3:16 (HCSB)

In John 3:16 the key word is believe. If we believe in Jesus have faith in Him, put our faith in Him, repent of our sins, we have eternal life. This takes place in one glorious moment not a life time. If we were to look at our life we would see that we have sinned more then we have done good. That’s way Romans 3:10-12 is so important;

10 as it is written: There is no one righteous, not even one. 11 There is no one who understands; there is no one who seeks God. 12 All have turned away; all alike have become useless. There is no one who does what is good, not even one. Romans 3:10-12 (HCSB)

There is no one that is righteous because one sin gives us eternal death but Romans 6:23 calls eternal life a gift.

23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. Romans 6:23 (HCSB)

You cannot work for a gift; a gift is given to you. I love the way Romans 11:6 tells it.

⁶ And if by grace, then it is no longer of works; otherwise grace is no longer grace. But if it is of works, it is no longer grace; otherwise work is no longer work. Romans 11:6 (NKJV)

So what does the bible say? It’s a gift that happens when you ask for forgiveness.

What does Thomas S. Monson and The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints says? It a lifetime of righteousness and good works.

Sorry Thomas but you got it wrong. That’s not what the Bible says.

END OF LINE…

Love One Another (I Love Mormons 2)

One of the terms I hate the most in my ministry is the term, “Anti-Mormon”. Truly I hate this term because this is who I am not. Over the past few weeks I have been called this behind my back, on blogs, and other ways. Now this does hurt because I have said it before and will say it again, I LOVE MORMONS!!!

Now are my blogs talking about how I believe the LDS church is wrong, YES but that is only because I love. Just as the LDS send out Mormon missionaries door to door telling people that they will not be with God if they don’t do certain things, accordion to the LDS faith, I to preach what I know is true.

But as of late it seems that Mormons are trying to claim that the Biblical Christians are beating up on them. And I understand that with the GOP race and the Pastor in Texas, the Biblical Christians have been speaking out about the LDS faith, but we are not bashing you but we are trying to show that the Mormon faith is false. But in no way is the LDS innocent of not bashing of the Biblical Christians. In fact the LDS came out swinging. A lot of past Mormon teachers and prophets have been bashing the Christian Churches for years now. So please don’t think you are getting beat down because you all have a ton a beating in your past.

For example;

2nd President Brigham Young

“The people called Christians are shrouded in ignorance, and read the Scriptures with darkened understandings” (Brigham Young, October 8, 1859, Journal of Discourses 7:333).

“Should you ask why we differ from other Christians, as they are called, it is simply because they are not Christians as the New Tes­tament defines Christianity” (Brigham Young, July 8, 1863, Journal of Discourses, 10:230).

6th President Joseph F. Smith

“…for I contend that the Latter-day Saints are the only good and true Christians, that I know anything about in the world. There are a good many people who profess to be Christians, but they are not founded on the foundation that Jesus Christ himself has laid” (Joseph F. Smith, November 2, 1891, [Stake conference message], Collected Discourses, 2:305. Ellipses mine).

And how about the pastor of these Churches that I am a member of? I am a pastor and I get paid, so what does the LDS think about me and others.

“Wherever creeds are found one can also expect to find a paid clergy, the simple truths of the gospel cloaked in the dark robes of mystery, religious intolerance, and a history of bloodshed” (Jo­seph Fielding McConkie and Craig Ostler, Revelations of the Restora­tion, p. 964).

Hard words on the part of the LDS to the churches and paid pastors. Oh and by the way, what church is the only true church?

Just because the Biblical Christian view is not the same as the LDS, that does not mean that we are Anti-Mormon, we just want to show you the truth found in the Bible and we want to make sure you have eternal life.

As a Pastor, Christian, friend, I love you and care for your soul.

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How was Jesus Conceived?

Over the past week and a half, there has been a lot of talk between Mormons and Christians about how Jesus was conceive. This talk has been highlighted on the bible answer man and has been talked about here in Utah because of those shows.

On the bible answer man, Hank Hanegraaff used a quote from Bruce R. McConkie (Shown Below) to show that Mormon belief say that God came down to earth in a body of flesh and blood and was with Mary to Conceive.

“Christ was Begotten by an immortal Father in the same way that mortal men are begotten by mortal fathers” (Bruce R. McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, 1966, p. 547).

Now a lot of Mormons called in and wrote Email stating that we Christians are wrong and don’t know what we are talking about, Which I hear a lot from Mormons, but it is hard to say that when people like Hank Hanegraaff, Bill McKeever, Sandra Tanner, Shawn McCraney, and Myself use the words of Mormon Leaders to understand what the LDS teaches. 

On the issue at hand, How was Jesus conceive?  I give you Luke 1:26-35

26 In the sixth month, the angel Gabriel was sent by God to a town in Galilee called Nazareth, 27 to a virgin engaged to a man named Joseph, of the house of David. The virgin’s name was Mary. 28 And ⌊the angel⌋ came to her and said, “Rejoice, favored woman! The Lord is with you.” 29 But she was deeply troubled by this statement, wondering what kind of greeting this could be. 30 Then the angel told her:

Do not be afraid, Mary, for you have found favor with God. 31 Now listen: You will conceive and give birth to a son, and you will call His name Jesus. 32 He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High, and the Lord God will give Him the throne of His father David. 33 He will reign over the house of Jacob forever, and His kingdom will have no end.

34 Mary asked the angel, “How can this be, since I have not been intimate with a man?” 35 The angel replied to her:

“The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you. Therefore, the holy One to be born will be called the Son of God. Luke 1:26-35 (HCSB)

Now as I have talked to members of the LDS, they clam that this is what they believe but this is not what was said by Mormon leaders. let us look at the teachings of Mormon leaders and if a Mormon is reading this then remember that this is what you most believe to be a good Mormon and if that words come from the president then it is scripture, Believed to be the word of God to the LDS.

“The birth of the Saviour was as natural as are the births of our children; it was the result of natural action. He partook of flesh and blood - was begotten of his Father, as we were of our fathers” (Brigham Young, July 8, 1860, Journal of Discourses 8:115). 

“CHRIST NOT BEGOTTEN OF HOLY GHOST… Christ was begotten of God. He was not born without the aid of Man, and that Man was God!” (Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation 1:18. Italics in original.

“The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints proclaims that Jesus Christ is the Son of God in the most literal sense. The body in which He performed His mission in the flesh was sired by that same Holy Being we worship as God, our Eternal Father. Jesus was not the son of Joseph, nor was He begotten by the Holy Ghost” (The Teachings of Ezra Taft Benson, pg.7. See also the Church News, December 18, 2004, p. 16).Ellipses mine).

“We are all spirit sons and daughters of God; but Jesus Christ was and is The Son of God in a superlative and distinctive sense, God the Eternal Father being His Father both in spirit and in flesh” (James E. Talmage, Conference Reports, April 1915, p. 123).

“Begotten means begotten; it means Christ’s mortal body was procreated by an Eternal Sire; it means God is the Father of Christ, ‘after the manner of the flesh.’ (1 Ne. 11:18.)” (Bruce R. McConkie, Doctrinal New Testament Commentary 3:141).

“The official doctrine of the Church is that Jesus is the literal offspring of God. He’s got 46 chromosomes; 23 came from Mary, 23 came from God the eternal Father” (BYU Professor Stephen E. Robinson, The Mormon Puzzle, produced by the Southern Baptist Convention, 1997).

“The Father had a Son, a natural Son, his own literal Seed, the Offspring of his body” (Bruce R. McConkie, The Promised Messiah: The First Coming of Christ, pg.355).

So for what the words that the LDS clam, God literally came and was with Mary and had a son, that was the LDS Jesus. 

This is not what the Bible teaches and is not what Christians believe.  This is one reason that Christians say that Mormons have a “Different Jesus”.  Again like I have said, and others have said, We do not believe in the same Jesus or the same God.  But my Heart goes out to people of the Mormon faith. I pray that they see the light and the truth and come to know the real Jesus, the Jesus of the Bible. 

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Teachings of Thomas S. Monson: Part 2 (His Teachings VS The Book of Mormon)

So as I have started reading the sections in Thomas S. Monson book, I have read things that I don’t agree with but also things I do.  One of the things that I do agree with was in his section of the Atonement.  Now it is not that the Atonement took place in Gethsemane because it did not take place there but on the cross, but I will get to that in another post.  The part that I did agree with was on page 20 where Thomas says,

“More then 2000 years ago, Christ our Savior, was born to mortal life in a stable in Bethlehem. The long-foretold Messiah had come.” 

Did you catch that?  Did Thomas S. Monson just say that Jesus was born in Bethlehem? 

Although the Christian belief is that Jesus was born in Bethlehem, that is not what is written in the Book of Mormon. 

Alma 7:10 says, And behold, he shall be born of Mary, at Jerusalem which is the land of our forefathers, she being a virgin, a precious and chosen vessel, who shall be overshadowed and conceive by the power of the Holy Ghost, and bring forth a son, yea, even the Son of God.

Now we know what the bible says,

 Bethlehem Ephrathah, you are small among the clans of Judah; One will come from you to be ruler over Israel for Me. His origin is from antiquity, from eternity.    Micah 5:2 (HCSB)

Now this has been an issue for years because it is clearly wrong in the Book of Mormon, which is a problem because the Book of Mormon is call, “The Most Correct Book Ever Written” by the LDS church.

Now over the years, Mormons have clamed that Bethlehem was so close to Jerusalem that they where kind of one in the same.  The truth is, is that they are 6 miles apart and anyone from that area that you talk to will never say that you could say that Bethlehem was Jerusalem. or that Bethlehem was a sub community of Jerusalem, they were two different towns. 

  

 Bethlehem Ephrathah - a small town near Jerusalem on the West Bank of the Jordan River; early home of David and regarded as the place where Jesus was born.

Now to be fair I want and watched a video clip from fairlds.org to see what they said. It came to my attention that as they talked about Alma 7:10, they change the verse to make it say what they wanted it to.  They change it form saying, “at Jerusalem which is the land of our forefathers” and they said “that he was born at the land of Jerusalem.”  But again the Book of Mormon says, “at Jerusalem which is the land…”

So the question is this, Who is wrong? Joseph Smith? The Book of Mormon? Thomas S. Monson?

One of them is wrong on this subject. We know that History and the Bible states that Jesus was born in Bethlehem and not Jerusalem.  We know that God told us that the birth would take place in Bethlehem and not in the so called land of Jerusalem.  God was clear and that is where Jesus was born. 

So today I have to give it to Thomas S. Monson for telling his people that the Book of Mormon was wrong and that Jesus was born in Bethlehem. 

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What does the bible say…

“By obedience to God’s commandments, we can qualify for that ‘house’ spoken of by Jesus when He declared: “In my Father’s house are many mansions. … I go to prepare a place for you … that where I am, there ye may be also” (John 14:2-3)” (Thomas S. Monson, “An Invitation to Exaltation,” Ensign (Conference Edition), May 1988, p. 54. Ellipses in original).

“God our Father, and Jesus Christ, our Lord, have marked the way to perfection. They beckon us to follow eternal verities and to become perfect, as they are perfect (see Matthew 5:48; 3 Nephi 12:48)” (Thomas S. Monson, “An Invitation to Exaltation,” Ensign (Conference Edition), May 1988, p. 54).

Here are 2 quotes from Thomas s. Monson.  Now the question I have is, if members of the LDS clam to Believe in the Bible then what about these verse?

6 Now if by grace, then it is not by works; otherwise grace ceases to be grace. Romans 11:6 (HCSB)

justification: The act of God as judge that declares sinners (who were in the "wrong") to be "right" or righteous in His sight.  He is just in doing this because Jesus died on the cross to take away their sins and to give them His own righteousness (2 Cor 5:21). The sinner receives this justification by faith and by grace when he trusts Christ's work.

Jesus did the work, we only have to have faith and repent of our sins and we are saved. 

For all who call on the name of the Lord will be saved.       Romans 10:13

If you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 One believes with the heart, resulting in righteousness, and one confesses with the mouth, resulting in salvation. Romans 10:9-10 (HCSB)

Looks like the bible says something else.

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A Challenge for Mormons

For the members of the LDS Church that clam I know nothing of there faith, I want to set up a Challenge.  Last night I ordered a copy of “Teachings of Thomas S. Monson” and I plan to read a chapter and then write a review on each Chapter based on what the bible says and what past LSD prophets have said. 

But as I read this book and take notes and write on them I ask for any Mormon to read a book from a Christian writer and see what we have to say.  (Below is a list of books you should pick from)

• The Mormon Mirage by Latayne C. Scott
• Mormonism Unmasked by R. Philip Roberts
• 3:16 The Number of Hope by Max Lucado
• Doctrine: What Christians Should Believe by Mark Driscoll
• Mere Christianity by C.S. Lewis
• Vintage Jesus by Mark Driscoll
• The Gospels (Matthew, Mark, Luke And John) and Romans in the ether the NIV or The Holman Christian Stander Bible

All these books you can find on Amazon. Will you take this Challenge, I am

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Monday bible study/ Sunday Sermon