Donall and Conall Meet the Mormon Missionaries

My Time in Utah (Part 1)

Maybe I should start by telling a little about my draw I had to looking for a church to pastor in Utah. 

For the 7 years before I moved to Utah, I had been studying the Mormon faith or Church of Jesus Christ of Latter- Day Saints (LDS).  Mormonism was a very interesting belief system to me.  I say these young men walk by the pizza place I was working at, knocking on the many doors of the college apartments that where across the road.  It was the dead of Missouri Summer it St. Charles Missouri and here were these men in shirts and ties and long pants.  I really had respect for these men and still today I have respect for them for spending 2 years of their lives preaching what they believe. (You will not see a lot of Christians doing this.) 

When I first time I saw these missionaries, I was at bad time in my life.  I had lost a great paying job and gave up on my god complete.  See for year I was praying to a god of my own making and I had finally given up on it.  I planed to live for myself but one day I say two missionaries walking in the heat and I wanted someone to talk to. 

As I talked with those Mormons and they told me a very poor version of Jesus, I started to have questions.  (Now let me point out that when I say poor, I mean according to the Mormon I lived with and told this story to, they use the word poor. The Mormon missionaries gave a very poor “Missionary lesion”)

I started to look into faiths and soon became a born again Christian and joined a Southern Baptist Church.  Although I was now a Baptist I was still interested in the LDS faith.  So with studying the Bible, I also started to study Mormonism.

UNTIL NEXT TIME, END OF LINE…          

My Time in Utah

Starting in a few days I will start posting about my time in Utah.  My time working with Mormons and other Christians as well.  This is something I really want to write to let people know about how a Baptist Pastor went to Utah and worked and lived. 

Words to Live By

"You want to know why there's so much darkness in this world? Could it be because a lot of folks don't see us loving one another?" - Fred Luter

Was Joseph Smith Really a Prophet from God?

From http://www.equip.org/perspectives/was-joseph-smith-really-a-prophet-from-god/

WAS JOSEPH SMITH A PROPHET?- Introduction
Joseph Smith, the founder of the Mormon church, claimed to be a prophet of God.  Was he?

WAS JOSEPH SMITH A PROPHET?- Smith’s Vision
In determining whether Joseph Smith was a prophet of God we need first to look at Smith’s so-called “first vision,” in which God supposedly instructed the would-be prophet to start a new church — what was to become the Mormon church.  The evidence shows, however that Smith’s testimony suffers from a host of internal discrepancies.  For example, the earliest recorded account of Smith’s “first vision” makes mention only of Jesus Christ, whereas other accounts report the appearance of both Jesus and God the Father, or of an angel, or a group of angels.  Whatever the case may be, it’s clear to see that such conflicting reports only serve to cast doubt on the veracity of Smith’s testimony.  Keep in mind that several of these accounts came from the same man — Joseph Smith himself.

WAS JOSEPH SMITH A PROPHET?- Prophetic Accuracy
Turning now to prophetic accuracy, we find that Smith fares no better than he did in recounting his alleged encounter with God.  According to Deuteronomy 18:22, God’s prophets have a one hundred percent rate of accuracy — that is to say, their prophetic predictions never miss the mark.  Unfortunately for Smith, such standards proved too much for him.  We note, for example, that Smith predicted that a Mormon temple in Missouri would be constructed before all of the people living in 1832 pass away.  This did not occur.

WAS JOSEPH SMITH A PROPHET?- A Different god?
But even if Smith were flawless in all his predictions (which certainly was not the case), according to Deuteronomy 13:1-3 he would still not qualify as a prophet of God because he was speaking for a false god — a god other than the One revealed in Scripture.  The facts lead us to draw only one conclusion: that Joseph Smith was indeed a prophet, but a false prophet.  And remember, the irony is that is was Joseph Smith who attacked Christianity by saying that all its teachers were corrupt.

On Joseph Smith and the question “Was Joseph Smith a Prophet?”, that’s the CRI Perspective.  I’m Hank Hanegraaff.

The Book of Abraham (Facsimile No.1)

 

Here above you see two pictures that can be find right before the first Chapter 1.  I have put two pictures up from two different years of Pearl of Great Price.  The 1st picture is from my 1973 copy and the 2nd is from my 2010 copy.  I have decided to write this post because of the upcoming 2013 changes to the BoM, D&C, and Pearl of Great Price. 

Now the stander work says;  “A Translation of some ancient Records, that have fallen into our hands from the catacombs of Egypt.—The writings of Abraham while he was in Egypt, called the Book of Abraham, written by his own hand, upon papyrus. See History of the Church 2:235, 236, 348-35” (Introduction to Abraham 1).

And; “The book of Abraham is an evidence of the inspired calling of the Prophet Joseph Smith. It came forth at a time when the study of the ancient Egyptian language and culture was just beginning. The scholars of the 1800s had scarcely begun to explore the field of Egyptology, and yet, with no formal training in ancient languages and no knowledge of ancient Egypt (except his work with the Book of Mormon), Joseph Smith began his translation of the ancient manuscripts. His knowledge and ability came through the power and gift of God, together with his own determination and faith.” (Pearl of Great Price Student Manual Religion 327, 2000, p. 29).

The point I am trying to make is that if this is evidence of the inspired call of JS, then why are these explanation to the pictures above False.

At the time, Egyptian things were hot.  There was things being found all the time in Egypt and Americans had no idea what they said.  News had spread that a young man was able to translate Egyptian because of the claims he made about The Book of Mormon which was claimed to be written in Reformed Egyptian. 

JS claimed that this was a picture of Abraham being offering up as a sacrifice.

These pictures always bothered me and now they bug me even more because there are so clearly untrue but even on the LDS website, they still clam them as JS says.  Still today if you go to; http://www.lds.org/scriptures/pgp/abr/fac-1?lang=eng It shows the picture found in the PGP. 

 

Why is this major lie still be installed in the Mormon’s teachings. With the help with things like the Rosetta Stone and people who have taken the time to learn the Egyptian language, we have found what this papyrus is.   

 

In reality, this is "an embalming scene showing the deceased lying on a lion-couch.

When Egyptologists translated this piece of papyrus, they found that it contained absolutely nothing concerning Abraham. Instead, it turned out to be a pagan funerary text known as the "Book of Breathings," a work which actually evolved from the Egyptian Book of the Dead. The Book of Breathings did not come into existence until the later stages of Egyptian history—just a few centuries before the time of Christ. Like the Book of the Dead, it was buried with those who died in ancient Egypt. It is filled with magic and pagan gods. It was obviously written by a very superstitious people, and is quite different from the religion taught in the Bible. (http://www.utlm.org/onlineresources/tract_fallofbookabraham.htm)

So with the clear understanding of what this actually is, will the LDS church come out and state that Joseph Smith was WRONG and lied to his followers.  If JS was wrong about this then how can we believe that he translated another Egyptian text?  It is clear with things like the Book of Abraham and the Kinderhook Plates that Joseph Smith lied about his “inspired” skills to translate. 

Its at this point that I know people will look at this and claim that I lie and am just hating the Mormon faith but I ask that you look into this yourself and look at Facsimile No. 1 yourself and see what it really say.  Ask yourself, “Should this lie be in one of my holy books?”  you decide?

END OF LINE…

What does it mean to be a Christian? A Mormon apostle explains.

Posted on May 30, 2013 by Sharon Lindbloom from http://blog.mrm.org/2013/05/what-does-it-mean-to-be-a-christian-a-mormon-apostle-explains/

In October 2012 Mormon Apostle Robert D. Hales spoke at the Mormon Church’s General Conference regarding what it means to be a Christian. He defined a Christian like this:

“A Christian has faith in the Lord Jesus Christ, that He is the literal Son of God, sent by His Father to suffer for our sins in the supreme act of love we know as theAtonement.

“A Christian believes that through the grace of God the Father and His Son, Jesus Christ, we can repent, forgive others, keep the commandments, and inherit eternal life.

“The word Christian denotes taking upon us the name of Christ. We do this by being baptized and receiving the gift of the Holy Ghost by the laying on of hands by those holding His priesthood authority.

“A Christian knows that throughout the ages, God’s prophets have always testified of Jesus Christ. This same Jesus, accompanied by Heavenly Father, appeared to the Prophet Joseph Smith in the year 1820 and restored the gospel and the organization of His original Church.

“Through the scriptures and the witness of Joseph Smith, we know that God, ourHeavenly Father, has a glorified and perfected body of flesh and bone. Jesus Christ is His Only Begotten Son in the flesh. The Holy Ghost is a personage of spirit whose work is to testify of the Father and the Son. The Godhead is three separate and distinct beings, unified in purpose.

“With these doctrines as the foundation of our faith, can there be any doubt or disputation that we, as members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, are Christian?” (Ensign, “Being a More Christian Christian,” November 2012, 90)

Indeed, if Mr. Hales’ definition of a Christian is used, not only are Mormons Christians, they are the onlyChristians. As Bill McKeever noted in the January-February 2013 issue of Mormonism Researched,summarized here,

• Mormonism teaches that Jesus is the literal offspring of Heavenly Father and a Heavenly Mother (while historic Christianity, though recognizing Jesus as the Son of God, has never believed Jesus is “literally” God’s Son);
• The Mormon Church claims to be the only church that holds God’s priesthood authority;
• Only Mormons believe Joseph Smith was visited by God the Father and Jesus Christ;
• Mormon doctrine dictates that God the Father has a body of flesh and bone (while historic Christianity worships a God of spirit);
• Mormonism uniquely expands the biblical revelation of Christ as God’s only begotten Son by adding the qualifier “in the flesh,” something historic Christianity has never affirmed;
• Mormonism recognizes three Gods in the Godhead while orthodox Christianity has always been committed to the doctrine of only One True God (in Trinity).

Therefore, on the face of it, according to Mr. Hales definition only Mormons are Christians. Anyone who believes in the orthodox doctrine of the Trinity, or chooses baptism in a different church, or dismisses Joseph Smith’s First Vision (etc.) is not a Christian.

Some have noted that this exclusionary list, presented by a Mormon Apostle, in an official Church setting, is a bit hypocritical in light of the usual insistence of Mormons and the Mormon Church alike that “Christian” must be verybroadly defined: “Anyone who accepts Jesus Christ as the Son of God and the Redeemer of the world is a Christian, regardless of differences in theology.”

Perhaps the Mormon Church has recognized that Mr. Hales’ definition of a Christian tends to “dismiss or diminish the validity of other people’s religious experiences,” something the Church, on its website,claims it does not do. In the March 2013 issue of the Ensign, readers are encouraged to “review the October 2012 general conference,” specifically noting Mr. Hales’ address discussing, “What does it mean to be a Christian?” An edited quote from Mr. Hales’ talk is provided for Ensign readers:

1. A Christian has faith in the Lord Jesus Christ. …
2. A Christian believes that through the grace of God … we can repent, forgive others, keep the commandments, and inherit eternal life.
3. The word Christian denotes taking upon us the name of Christ. We do this by being baptized and receiving the gift of the Holy Ghost.
4. A Christian knows that … God’s prophets have always testified of Jesus Christ. (Ensign, “October Conference Notebook,” March 2013, 9. Ellipses retained from the source cited.)

This edited list has lost every Mormon distinctive that is found in Mr. Hales’ original: No mention of Jesus being the “literal” Son of God; no mention of priesthood authority; no mention of Joseph Smith’s First Vision; no mention of a Father God of flesh and bone; no mention of Jesus being the only begotten “in the flesh”; no mention of the Godhead being comprised of three Gods.

The Mormon Church seems happy to recognize non-Mormons as Christian per the broader, more inclusive definition found online and in the March Ensign; but to be a Christian Christian – well, that appears to be another story altogether.

Who Created Everything???

As I think about the creation of the world, I think about all the things that God has done.  From the snow that lay on the ground now to the birds that sing and the air which we breath, God created it all. 

In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth.  Gen 1:1 (ESV)

Like The Bible say; “God Created”.  But I look to the LDS religion to see what they believe in this area.  I remember that the LDS do clam to have the bible in there canon and even in the Articles of Faith is says; 

“We believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly…” (Article Eight, Articles of Faith).

So then I look at creation and I think to myself, “Is there some we can agree on?”  Well again there is no because we do not agree on creation because of all the LDS reading I have done, the LDS do not believe in creation as told in the Bible. 

I know, I know… the LDS clam to believe the Bible and where is say, “God Created” but that is not what is taught by LDS in there own works.  Let us look at what the teachers of LDS theology says;

“God never made something out of nothing; it is not in the economy or law by which the worlds were, are, or will exist. There is an eternity before us, and it is full of matter; and if we but understand enough of the Lord and his ways, we would say that he took of this matter and organized the earth from it. How long has been organized it is not for me to say, and I do not care anything about it” (Brigham Young, May 14, 1871, Journal of Discourses 14:116).

God never made?  But Genesis says He created. 

When Christians talk about God creating the Heavens and Earth, we believe He created all things.  And I mean ALL THINGS. 

“AND then the Lord said: Let us go down. And they went down at the beginning, and they, that is the Gods, organized and formed the heavens and the earth” (Abraham 4:1).

Again, Christians believe that God Created not organized and formed the world. 

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning. 3 All things were created through Him, and apart from Him not one thing was created that has been created.  John 1:1-3 (HCSB)

The Gospel of John makes it clear that ALL THINGS were created through Jesus Christ.  Not formed and organized.

So was the earth created or just organized?  Do we believe the Bible (which the LDS clam they do) or believe man?