Published on Dec 5, 2012 by thewayofthemaster
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From the Producers of "180" movie.
When the truth is shown to you, one should believe and not turn away because that’s how they were raised. To many times I talk with people in the LDS faith and this is the type of things I hear. Even when I show them facts for their own books, they are still clouded by the lies that they have been told all their lives.
I pray that the people in this video and other Mormons look more into the history of the LDS church and the writings of the early church leaders because as soon as you do, you will see that the begging LDS was total different then what it is today.
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Article ID: JAF2341
By: Eric Johnson
This article first appeared in Christian Research Journal, volume 34, number 01 (2011). For further information or to subscribe to the Christian Research Journal go to: http://www.equip.org
SYNOPSIS
For many years, members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormons) have practiced what they call “friendshipping.” This coined word describes the attitude that Mormons are told to have in their relationships with less active members or those who have no connection whatsoever to the LDS Church. By going out of their way to do kind gestures, Mormons hope to present a positive image of their church and possibly entice friends and neighbors to enter into the missionary lessons. In addition, many Christians are pressured to join the LDS Church when they become involved in romantic relationships with Mormons. While Mormons apparently can date outside their faith as long as their partners are pure and wholesome, they are not supposed to marry nonmembers. Thus, the Christian boyfriend or girlfriend is typically required to join the LDS Church before the relationship can head to the next step, which could be a Mormon temple wedding ceremony. While Christians certainly can and should have friendships with those from other religions, including Mormons, they also need to understand the potential pitfalls when others are trying to convert them to their faith.
My friend and I backed the rented moving truck into the driveway of our family’s new home in Sandy, Utah, a short drive from the headquarters of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LDS Church) in Salt Lake City. It was 2:00 A.M. on a Sunday, much too late to begin unloading the twenty-seven-foot, packed-to-the-gills truck. We decided to get some sleep, knowing that some friends were scheduled to come by that afternoon to help.
Sunday is a sacred day for members of the LDS Church; Mormons are not supposed to work or recreate on the “Sabbath.” Since more than two-thirds of Utah’s population is LDS, many stores and restaurants throughout the state are closed on Sunday. Because our friends’ schedules did not allow for them to help later in the week and the truck was due back, we hoped our new Mormon neighbors (which, it turns out, includes almost everyone on the block) would understand why we had to work on Sunday.
That afternoon, as the back door to the truck rolled open and we began the backbreaking process of unloading, my next-door neighbor—sporting jeans and a T-shirt with a pair of work gloves on his hands—appeared from around the corner. “Need a hand?” he asked. I knew that he was a former Mormon bishop who had been very friendly to me during my purchase of the home. “Imagine,” I thought to myself, “this man is willing to forego his day of rest to help me move.” In one way, I was duly impressed. But I wondered if “friendshipping” was his main motivation. Regardless, he was one of the hardest workers of the afternoon, sweating profusely and refusing to take a break.
KIND ACTS AND GETTING A FOOT IN THE DOOR
In the 2005 LDS-genre movie Mobsters and Mormons, a New Jersey “goodfella” and his family are secretly relocated to Utah as part of the Witness Protection Program. The comedy comes as the rough-edged Italian informant—now with the assumed name of George Cheeseman—learns to adapt to the culture that feels to him like Disneyland on steroids. Soon after the Cheesemans move into their home, most of the Mormon families from the neighborhood bend over backwards to welcome the brash newcomers with visits and gifts of baked goods. In addition, it doesn’t take them long to invite this Catholic family to Mormon Church services and activities.
Louise, the local neighborhood gossip, decides she isn’t a fan of these uncouth people, so she warns Kate Jaynes, the wife of the local LDS Church leader, not to be so outgoing to them. “We are setting a standard,” Kate ends up sarcastically responding to her complaining neighbor. “We had the Cheesemans over for dinner. It’s called friendshipping. You know what? You should try it sometime.”
“Friendshipping” is an LDS-coined word that emphasizes the building of relationships with non-Mormon friends and neighbors. It is certainly not a strategy of the Jehovah’s Witnesses, a group that is more likely to knock on our doors, but who will shun their own neighbors and refuse to participate in neighborhood social activities.
According to Sandra Tanner, the founder of the Utah Lighthouse Ministry in Salt Lake City, Mormons have found success through friendshipping. “The LDS Church has long realized that simply going door-to-door is one of the least efficient means of finding potential converts,” she said. “They try to involve the local church member in supplying names of friends and relatives for missionary contact. Often the church member will invite someone over for dinner, along with the LDS missionaries, as a means of introducing the person to Mormonism.”1
Indeed, Mormon leaders encourage their members to go beyond the comfort of their own homes to engage with nonmembers. Many assume that the Mormon Church’s best tactics to entice potential converts are through direct contact with two of the church’s 52,000 missionaries as well as media campaigns. Yet the results of these two methods are less than impressive. Only two to three percent of those who initially became connected to the church through missionary efforts ever get baptized; just one to two percent of those contacted through a media campaign join the LDS Church. However, twenty to thirty percent of those whose first contact came through a relationship with current members end up getting baptized!2
While using friendships to try to make converts is certainly not new or unique to the Mormon Church, the current idea of Mormon friendshipping began in the 1970s when President Spencer W. Kimball encouraged LDS families to reach out to others in an evangelistic way. “With your family, prayerfully select one or two families to friendship,” he said. “Decide whom of your relatives or friends you will introduce to the Church. Perhaps you could plan a family home evening with them….Then, when these families show interest, arrange through your ward or branch mission leader to invite them and the missionaries into your home to share the message of the restoration. If you will follow this simple procedure, you will bring a number of fine families into the Church.”3
One church manual provides a four-step list to “sharing the Gospel effectively”: “1. Prayerfully select a family. 2. Friendship the family. 3. Introduce the family to the Church. 4. Invite the family to meet with the missionaries.”4 Under this final step, the manual gives a sample monologue on how to convince the neighbors to meet the missionaries: “One way of asking friends if they would like to know about the Church is to say: ‘We enjoy being your neighbors. Would you and your family join us in a family home evening tomorrow night at seven o’clock? Two young men from our Church will give a presentation on how our Church began.”5
The manual records one convert’s real-life story to prove the point: “Shortly after we moved to a new neighborhood, I was out working in my garden when one of my neighbors offered me a huge armful of tomatoes she had just picked. This was just the beginning of what was to be a forever friendship. In the months that followed, [our neighbors] proved to be the best friends….we had ever met. They were not afraid to be too friendly and took our family in just as though we were their own family.”6
The efforts proved to be successful. “We were always invited to Church activities but never pressured to go,” the convert continued. “When we did decide to go, our neighbors’ sweet, dependable daughter came over to babysit for us—and sometimes even refused to be paid for it. After I had had a hard day at home, my friend would ask me to come to Relief Society with her…we knew in our hearts that we wanted a more complete life like theirs.”7
This model has continued into the twenty-first century. President Gordon Hinckley told a gathering at the Salt Lake Tabernacle, “The process of bringing people into the Church is not the responsibility alone of the missionaries,” he said. “They succeed best when members become the source from which new investigators are found.”8 Speaking to a group of new mission presidents at the Provo Missionary Training Center, Apostle Dallin Oaks said: “Members simply must take a more active role in our missionary efforts at every stage: friendshipping those who are not of our faith; sharing Church materials; sharing feelings about the gospel; inviting friends to Church activities, service projects, and meetings; giving the missionaries referrals to visit our friends; inviting those friends to be taught the gospel in our homes; and fellowshipping and strengthening new converts.”9
Young Mormons are especially encouraged to make friends and then introduce the Mormon gospel to them. In one Mormon youth magazine, writer Pat Graham utilized an LDS scriptural verse10 to explain how to friendship: “President Spencer W. Kimball said that ‘usually we must warm our neighbors before we can warn them properly’ and that we should friendship and fellowship, ‘not scold and scare them.’ How can you show love to your nonmember friends and neighbors? Little kindnesses will help friends feel good about our Church. They will ‘warm’ up to the idea of learning more about the teachings of the Church.”11
The idea of getting friends to become involved in church activities is continually promoted. The official LDS Church Web site includes a section for youth with an explanation of how friendshipping should take place: “Invite your nonmember friends to Church activities where they can learn about your standards and the principles of the gospel. Include them in your midweek activities and your Sunday meetings. Help them feel welcome and wanted. Many nonmembers have come into the Church through friends who have involved them in Church activities.”12 In a Sunday school manual written specifically to LDS “young women,” the stated objective for one lesson reads: “Each young woman will extend friendship to young women of her own age and encourage them to take part in Church activities and meetings.” For the lesson application, the girls are instructed this way: “Invite the young women to choose a person that they, as a class, would like to reactivate or introduce to the gospel. Have them develop a plan to do this.”13
For those who move to a predominantly LDS community, friendshipping will not always look the same as it did in Mobsters and Mormons. Russ East, the director of Utah Partnerships for Christ, has lived in Utah for seven years. He says that he has excellent LDS neighbors; his wife regularly plays Bunco with the ladies in the neighborhood, and his daughter even babysits their children. While there is much interaction, he says, “I have not sensed much in their desire to send the missionaries our way or to get us into the LDS Church.”14 Bill McKeever, who is the head of Mormonism Research Ministry, hasn’t been friendshipped in his six years living in Utah but does not have any problem with the concept. “If the Mormons really believe they have truth and feel I am in error, I hope they would want to persuade me to their way of thinking.”15
Yet McKeever points out that Christians who have Mormon friends or neighbors should be grounded in the fundamentals of Christianity in order to understand the differences between the faiths. Since the terminology can be so very similar but with quite different meanings, this is often a difficult undertaking. It’s also hard to stand up for truth when personal relationships are at stake because nobody wants to look argumentative with friends or neighbors. If relationships hinge on a person having to join a church that rejects historic biblical teachings, however, then Christian believers need to take a stand.
Though some Christians in his neighborhood felt that Mormons practicing their “Welcome Neighbor” program were merely offering conditional friendships, Mormon author Darl Anderson believes it shouldn’t be this way. “I learned that our expressions of friendship need to show more sincerity and consistency if we want them to be correctly understood,” he wrote. “Many of our non-Mormon neighbors sincerely feel that every Mormon gesture toward them is devious…We need more communication as friends to know and do what they want for their benefit—not for our personal or selfish desires.”16
On the opposite end, while Christians ought to desire evangelistic opportunities, attempting to make friendships merely to win neighbors to Christ is also suspect. What will happen to this relationship if the other person continually rejects the Christian faith? Should this really be considered “friendship”?
THE MISSION FIELD OF DATING
Former LDS President Spencer W. Kimball was very clear in 1969 when he admonished his followers not to date nonmembers. He wrote, “Clearly, right marriage begins with right dating….Do not take the chance of dating nonmembers, or members who are untrained and faithless. A girl may say, ‘Oh, I do not intend to marry this person. It is just a ‘fun date.’ But one cannot afford to take a chance on falling in love with someone who may never accept the gospel.”17
Kimball told his members to not date until they were at least sixteen years old.18While this rule appears to be followed by most Mormon youth throughout the United States, the idea of dating only those in the church is no longer emphasized. Rather, it seems that high moral behavior is the main requirement. In an article titled “Dating FAQs” published recently in an LDS youth publication, the question was asked, “Should I date someone who is not LDS?” The answer? “Possibly, but don’t date anyone (LDS or not) who, because of low standards, will drag you down.”19
This idea is echoed on the official LDS Web site, which says Mormons should only date “those who have high standards, who respect your standards, and in whose company you can maintain the standards of the gospel of Jesus Christ.”20 Speaking to youth, current LDS prophet Thomas S. Monson stated, “Begin to prepare for a temple marriage as well as for a mission. Proper dating is a part of that preparation….Because dating is a preparation for marriage, ‘date only those who have high standards.’”21
Many local LDS congregations host weekend dances and other social events where their young people are encouraged to invite nonmember friends. With hormones raging, many nonmembers end up becoming attracted to the wholesome Latter-day Saints whom they meet. In the past few months, I have counseled two former Christian high school teenage male students, each of whom had independently become romantically involved with Mormons. They both were encouraged to participate in the missionary lessons and join the LDS Church if they hoped to take their relationships to the next level. Granted, it was the choice of these young men to date outside their faith, but they ended up getting pressured to convert to Mormonism. Neither one had even thought about cajoling the girls to leave Mormonism for Christianity. Despite the fact that they both recognized the falsehoods of Mormonism, they desperately wanted to continue their relationships but didn’t know how, unless they became Mormons.
This “missionary dating” tactic is common. Sandra Tanner believes the problem is especially prevalent with those attending college. “I often get calls from Christian parents who are deeply concerned about their son or daughter because they have started to date a Mormon at college and have gotten involved in the LDS college social group,” she said. “Often the person has joined the LDS Church without even telling the parents, informing them on their next school break. By that time, the person is often in a serious relationship that will lead to a temple wedding, which the parents will not be allowed to witness.”22 Bill McKeever adds, “I have seen far too many cases of Christian young people rejecting their faith in order to win the ‘love’ of a Mormon.”23
At a recent talk that we gave at a Christian church, two families—one LDS, the other Christian—attended together. Their twenty-year-old college-aged children—the girl is LDS, the boy a Christian—had been dating for several years and were getting more serious in their relationship. In fact, the only college that the boy had applied and been accepted to was LDS Church-owned Brigham Young University. The Christian parents were distraught with their boy’s choices, as it certainly appeared that he was moving much closer to Mormonism than she was to evangelical Christianity. Going to one meeting on the topic of Mormonism probably wasn’t going to change the way things were already headed.
It would appear that the advice that Spencer Kimball gave to his people more than four decades ago remains wise. “Mixed faith” marriages are a recipe for disaster, to both the couple and the children. Utilizing the concept of 2 Corinthians 6:14 when speaking to Christian missions teams visiting Utah, Russ East says, “I always send home the message that God does not approve when two oxen are unequally yoked.”24
With the dynamics that can occur between a boy and a girl, this is probably the most dangerous of situations. Love can be very emotional, and when the differences between the two religions are minimized (“We’re ‘Christian’ too!” many Mormons will argue) and ignorant young lovers become confused, the results can be disastrous. Rarely do we hear stories of Mormons becoming Christians in order to save a relationship. Instead, we hear far too often how Christians are becoming Mormons because their relationship with another human means more to them than their relationship with God.
In addition, “missionary dating” is neither biblical nor ethical and should not be a practice of faithful Christians. While the Bible does say that believers should be “shrewd as snakes and as innocent as doves,” using “love” in an attempt to change the faith of those they’re dating is certainly a wrong application of this passage. The end does not justify the means. As Bill McKeever puts it, “A Christian who manipulates a Mormon’s emotions for the sole purpose of conversion places his integrity in a precarious situation.”25
It is self-centered as well. If dating is to be considered the first step to courtship, which leads to engagement and ultimately marriage, then a biblically sound Christian has no business getting romantically involved with an unbeliever, even if it’s “just” dating. The risk is high and the fallout ultimately will end up hurting both parties.
THE INTRINSIC VALUE OF NEIGHBORLINESS
In the short time that my family has resided in Utah, our neighbor is turning out to be one of the best we’ve ever had. He has encouraged my wife in her new business venture. He made sure that we were welcomed to the neighborhood’s Fourth of July party.26 He spent three hours with me one sultry July morning fixing my house’s swamp cooler and helped me repair a lawnmower. And, though he knows I’m not LDS, he has not yet mentioned Mormonism or asked about having my family meet the missionaries.
Have we been targeted for “friendshipping”? An invitation to a local Mormon ward’s barbeque was taped to our front door just two days after moving in. Perhaps he put it there, though I don’t think so. Either way, I’m sure he would love to see our family become members of his church. At the same time, wouldn’t I like to see his family come to know the true Jesus as described in the Bible? Christians certainly should be cautious when entering into friendships with those from other religions. Still, I will do my part to continue this relationship and pray that I, in turn, will “love (my) neighbor as (my)self,” as Jesus said in Matthew 22:39, and be the best neighbor this man has ever known.
Eric Johnson now lives in Utah and works full-time with Mormonism Research Ministry (www.mrm.org). He also teaches college classes and is an associate editor for the Apologetics Study Bible for Students (Holman, 2010).
NOTES
From: http://www.equip.org/bible_answers/is-mormonism-christian-/
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints was birthed in 1820 by an alleged vision in which two celestial personages appeared to Joseph Smith claiming all existing churches were wrong, all their creeds were an abomination, and all their professors were corrupt. According to these personages, Smith had been chosen to restore—not reform—a church that had disappeared from the face of the earth. The Mormon doctrines that evolved from this vision compromise, confuse, or contradict the nature of God, the authority of Scripture, and the way of salvation.
First, while Christians believe that God is spirit (John 4:24), Joseph Smith taught, “God Himself was once as we are now, and is an exalted man, and sits enthroned in yonder heavens!” Mormonism also holds to a plurality of gods and contends that “as man is, God once was; as God is, man may become.” Additionally, the Latter-day Saints compromise the nature of the God-man, Jesus Christ. In Christianity, Jesus is the self-existent creator of all things (Colossians 1:15–20). In Mormonism, he is the spirit brother of Lucifer who was conceived in heaven by a celestial Mother and came in flesh as the result of the Father having sex with the Virgin Mary. Doctrinal perversions exclude Mormonism from rightly being called Christian.
Furthermore, in sharp distinction to orthodox Christian theology, Mormons do not believe that the Bible is the infallible repository for redemptive revelation (2 Timothy 3:16). In their view, the Book of Mormon is “the most correct of any book on earth, and the keystone of our religion.” Two further revelations complete the Mormon quad, namely Doctrine and Covenants and The Pearl of Great Price. Doctrine and Covenants is a compilation of divine revelations that includes the doctrine of polygamy. Not until threatened by the Federal government did Mormon president Wilford Woodruff receive a revelation relegating polygamy to the afterlife. The Pearl of Great Price is no less troubling; this extra-biblical revelation was used by Mormonism to prevent African-Americans from entering the priesthood and from being exalted to godhood.
Finally, while Christians believe that they will stand before God dressed in the spotless robes of Christ’s righteousness (Romans 3:21–22; Philippians 3:9), Mormons contend that they will appear before Heavenly Father dressed in fig-leaf aprons holding good works in their hands. According to the Latter-day Saints, virtually everyone qualifies for heaven. Murderers, unrepentant whoremongers, and the world’s vilest people make it into the Telestial heaven; lukewarm Mormons, religious people, and those who accept the Mormon gospel in the spirit world typically enter the Terrestrial heaven; and temple Mormons make it to the Celestial heaven. Only those who are sealed in secret temple rituals, however, will make it to the third level of the Celestial kingdom and become gods of their own planets.
These and many other doctrinal perversions exclude Mormonism from rightly being called Christian.
For further study, see Richard Abanes, One Nation Under Gods (New York: Four Walls Eight Windows, 2003); and James R. White, Is the Mormon My Brother? (Minneapolis: Bethany House, 1997).
Isaiah 43:10
“You are my witnesses,” declares the LORD,
“and my servant whom I have chosen,
so that you may know and believe me and understand
that I am he. Before me no god was formed,
nor will there be one after me.”
http://www.jesusandtim.org/archive/jtlv-shownotes-042112.html
Here is a Radio interview I did on the Jesus and Tim show out of Las Vegas back in April. I hope you enjoy.
Today I took the time to read a copy of Bruce McConkie’s 1982 BYU Devotional entitled “Our Relationship with the Lord.” AS I read this 22 page paper I was blown away by what was written by the Apostle. Every time I talk to a Mormon about them believing or worshipping Christ, one of the biggest answers I get is, “Yes… I mean the name of our church has Jesus in it.”
But what did Bruce McConkie say about Jesus Christ?
“We worship the Father and him only and no one else. We do not worship the Son and we do not worship the Holy Ghost.”
This Statement surprised me because I believed that the Mormon Church did worship Jesus. I mean they did name the Church after Him. We clearly have here that Bruce McConkie telling the people of the LDS faith that, “We worship the Father and him only and no one else.”
But is that all… NOOOOOOOO!!!! What else did I find in this Devotional, well that Bruce McConkie taught that Jesus work off His salvation. Point 5 in this devotional it states, “Christ worked out his own salvation by worshipping the Father.”
WOW JESUS WORK OFF HIS SALVATION!!!
In another part he writes, “After all of this he was called upon to work out his own salvation”.
But this make since seeing as most Mormons are trying to work their way to Heaven. So even at the beginning there is not a since of grace of God to save when the Son has to be saved and work to be saved himself.
The devotional comes to the conclusion with Bruce McConkie telling the people of the LDS faith that they don’t need to have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ.
“To single out one member of the Godhead for a Special relationship, the Father, not the Son, would be the one to choose.” and “Our relationship with the Son is one of brother or sister in the pre-mortal…”
Mormons, this is why we see and call you non-Christians. When you take Jesus and make Him a man who has to work for His own salvation, its wrong. Jesus is God, not a God but God.
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning. 3 All things were created through Him, and apart from Him not one thing was created that has been created. 4 Life was in Him, and that life was the light of men. 5 That light shines in the darkness, yet the darkness did not overcome it. John 1:1-5 (HCSB)
We Bible Believing Christians understand that Jesus is God and we need to have that relationship with Him. Jesus saves us from our Sin by the blood be shed on the cross for us. This is a gift that was given to us. We can not work our way to Heaven because we can never pay for the sins we commit. I proudly Worship Jesus because He is my God and my LORD (John 20:28).
Look to the teachings of you teachers my Mormon friends and then look to the Bible for the truth. It will set you free.
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Reading is great. I ask people to read the Bible (Gospel of John) when they are starting and also this books as well. Please pick it up and read.
"Wake up." That's the big word Jesus has for the church in Sardis and us today. It's an invitation for us to repent where there's spritual deadness, and to wake up and persevere for God's mission. It's a word of urgency, one of passion and compassion.
This clip is excerpted from the sermon "Dead in Sardis: Stopped Caring or Trying," preached by Pastor Mark Driscoll of Mars Hill Church at the site of the ruins of the Temple of Artemis in the ancient city of Sardis in Turkey. The sermon was released on June 3 as the seventh part of our current sermon series, the Seven.
Watch the full sermon here: http://marshill.com/media/the-seven/dead-in-sardis-stopped-caring-or-trying
For more on the series, go here: http://marshill.com/the-seven
I have posted this once but it looks like I need to do it again. If one would like to leave a comment on this site, one must not be unknown. If you do not have a Google id then please at lest put your name at the bottom of your comment. Thank You
Sorry I have not put anything new up lately, been having some family issues and getting ready to fly back to Missouri in about a week. I have been working on some things and hope to have them up soon. Just wanted to give you an update.
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News headline reads:
SALT LAKE CITY -- A federal judge has ruled there's sufficient evidence to allow a polygamous family made famous by a reality TV show to pursue a lawsuit challenging the constitutionality of Utah's bigamy law.
U.S. District Judge Clark Waddoups on Friday dismissed Utah's governor and attorney general from the case, but allowed the suit to proceed against Utah County Attorney Jeffrey Buhman, the Deseret News and Salt Lake Tribune report.
Buhman threatened to prosecute Kody Brown and his four wives – Meri, Janelle, Christine and Robyn – after the TLC show "Sister Wives" debuted in September 2010, but his office has not filed charges.
__________________________________________________________
So in understanding the history of polygamy in the history of the LDS church made me ask the question: if they do say its ok (polygamy), will D&C 132 come back to the church?
I was told by a known Mormons apologists that D&C 132 has nothing to do with polygamy. But in my collection of Mormon books and manuals, I have a copy of the 1981 D&C student manual put out from the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints which I can only guess was used by BYU students.
In the history background of D&C 132 it says that the revelation has 2 major sections: 1st part deals with Celestial marriage(3-33) and the 2nd and remaining verses deals with "plural marriage" which was abandoned by the church in 1890.
Remember this is from the official student manual from the church.
Again I was asked, “where in 132 does it talk about plural marriage?
The 3 parts that talk about polygamy are:
“Verily, thus saith the Lord unto you my servant Joseph, that inasmuch as you have inquired of my hand to know and understand wherein I, the Lord, justified my servants Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, as also Moses, David and Solomon, my servants, as touching the principle and doctrine of their having many wives and concubines—” (Doctrine and Covenants 132:1).
“David also received many wives and concubines, and also Solomon and Moses my servants, as also many others of my servants, from the beginning of creation until this time; and in nothing did they sin save in those things which they received not of me. David’s wives and concubines were given unto him of me, by the hand of Nathan, my servant, and others of the prophets who had the keys of this power; and in none of these things did he sin against me save in the case of Uriah and his wife; and, therefore he hath fallen from his exaltation, and received his portion; and he shall not inherit them out of the world, for I gave them unto another, saith the Lord” (Doctrine and Covenants 132:38-39).
“Verily, I say unto you: A commandment I give unto mine handmaid, Emma Smith, your wife, whom I have given unto you, that she stay herself and partake not of that which I commanded you to offer unto her; for I did it, saith the Lord, to prove you all, as I did Abraham, and that I might require an offering at your hand, by covenant and sacrifice. And let mine handmaid, Emma Smith, receive all those that have been given unto my servant Joseph, and who are virtuous and pure before me; and those who are not pure, and have said they were pure, shall be destroyed, saith the Lord God” (Doctrine and Covenants 132:51-52).
“And again, as pertaining to the law of the priesthood—if any man espouse a virgin, and desire to espouse another, and the first give her consent, and if he espouse the second, and they are virgins, and have vowed to no other man, then is he justified; he cannot commit adultery for they are given unto him; for he cannot commit adultery with that that belongeth unto him and to no one else” (Doctrine and Covenants 132:61).
One of the verses I highlighted was D&C 132:38-39 saying;
I guess one would have to understand what Joseph was saying when he wrote, UNTIL THIS TIME. Was he talking about the time of David or the time he lived. But we know from the Joseph Smith papers that they say he had up to 30 wives.
“During his lifetime, he [Joseph Smith] was married to approximately thirty women. Although conjugal relations were apparently involved, he spent little time with these women, the need for se¬crecy and the demands on his time keeping them apart” (The Joseph Smith Papers 1:xxx-xxxi. Brackets mine).
Then we would also have to look at, if 132 was just talking about celestial marriage (not dealing with plural marriage), why would Hyrum say, “If you will write the revelation on Celestial marriage, I will take it and read it to Emma, and I believe I can convince her its truth, and you will hereafter have peace” (History of the Church, 5:xxxii)
Why would they have to convince Emma about being with her husband for all eternity? Or where they convincing her to let Joseph have more then one wife?
The point that I would like to make is that living in Utah I know where there are polygamous family's lives and no on cares, even the mainstream LDS. The History of the church is clear but why do Mormons today try to cover it up or say it never happened.
One thing that evangelicals Christians and the rest of the world has a issue with is that the LDS church will not be upfront and clear on there history or beliefs. The cop out answer is, “Go to LDS.ORG and read about it.” If the LDS church still believe in polygamy in some way or another or looks for its return, please be upfront about it and try not to cover it up with lies.
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Over the past few week I have found issues on websites and forums about what is “official Doctrine”. Now in the Christian churches like the one I am in we hold the bible and the teachings of Jesus and truth to be Doctrine.
Christian truth and teaching passed on from generation to generation as “the faith that was delivered to the saints” (Jude 3 HCSB).
Specifically, doctrine refers to Christian teaching and most specifically to Christian teaching about God, the gospel, and the comprehensive pattern of Christian truth. The word itself means “teaching” and generally refers to the accepted body of beliefs held by the Christian church universally and to those beliefs specific to individual denominations and congregations in particular.
The Christian church cannot avoid teaching and thus must formulate a framework for understanding and teaching the basic rudiments and principles of the faith and for developing those basic doctrines into more comprehensive and thorough understandings. Without such a framework, the church has no coherent system of beliefs and no means of discriminating between true and false beliefs. —Holman Illustrated Bible Dictionary
But in understanding the LDS church, they are lead by a living prophet and at times receives Inspired words from God to become scripture.
“The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints accepts four books as scripture: the Bible, the Book of Mormon, the Doctrine and Covenants, and the Pearl of Great Price. These books are called the standard works of the Church. The inspired words of our living prophets are also accepted as scripture” (Gospel Principles, 2009, p. 45).
“In addition to these four books of scripture, the inspired words of our living prophets become scripture to us. Their words come to us through conferences, the Liahona or Ensign magazines, and instructions to local priesthood leaders” (Gospel Principles, 2009, p. 48. Italics in original).
We see clearly that in the church manual “Gospel Principles” that the inspired words of the prophet is the word of God or scripture. Now do LDS member claim this? Over the past few weeks I have would have to say NO.
The issue came about when a non-LDS asked about Adam-God and was hammered with commits saying that it’s not official LDS Doctrine so we could not talk about it. But did not Brigham Young preach Adam-God? Was it not inspired?
“I have never yet preached a sermon and sent it out to the children of men, that they may not call Scripture. Let me have the privilege of correcting a sermon, and it is as good Scripture as they deserve. The people have the oracles of God continually” (Brigham Young, January 2, 1870, Journal of Discourses 13:95).
The question then was brought up about how things become doctrine and I was told that when the prophet has something he takes to the 12 and so one and it had to be voted on by the church. But my question would have to be, “Who would go against the prophet” and “If the church votes ageist the prophet and his inspired words, does that make him a false prophet?”
“Just as the Lord’s prophet is the only person on the earth who holds all of the keys of the priesthood (see D&C 132:7), he also is the only one who is empowered to receive revelation for the whole Church. Neither his counselors nor members of the Quorum of the Twelve nor any person in any position in the Church may declare official doctrine, change policies, or speak as the Lord’s representative for the entire Church, without the prophet’s authorization” (Teachings of the Living Prophets, 1982, p. 13).
It always seems to come back to one man, the living prophet. When I got my copy of “The Teachings of Thomas S. Monson” people told me I was holding the word of God. But is it doctrine?
That always seems to be the question that non-LDS people have for the LDS church, what do you believe? Who do you listen to? If the living prophet says Jump will you say how high?
My question is, What is LDS doctrine?
END OF LINE…
Posted on January 12, 2012 by Aaron Shafovaloff on http://blog.mrm.org
Is a Christian someone who believes in a person named “Christ”, no matter what attributes they think of this person or his Father having? This will sound like a silly and irreverent thought-experiment, but hear me out, as this is intended to draw out a principle:
If someone said they believed in the historical life, death, and resurrection of the person of Jesus Christ, but said that this person’s Father was a great pumpkin in the sky, would that person still legitimately be considered a Christian?
I asked that very question to a panel of Mormon scholars once, and one answered yes (preferring such a person to be called a “heretical Christian”), and another answered no (referring to Jesus’ statement in John 10:30, “I and the Father are one”). Of course, no Mormon believes that the Father is “a great pumpkin in the sky”, but it does seem Mormons tend to believe that the title of “Christian” should be granted to anyone who claims the person of “Christ”, no matter what attributes they think this person (or his Father) have. The conditions are understandably minimal: this person believes in Christ’s death, burial, and resurrection, and this person believes in Christ’s “divinity” (however a person chooses to define that).
Traditional Christianity seems to have an unspoken, hidden qualification: such a person lacks what we might call “defeater-beliefs”. Believing that God is a unicorn or is the Xenu of Scientology would be safe examples. Does Mormonism simply deny the idea of “defeater-beliefs” altogether, beliefs which would disqualify someone’s status as “Christian”? Have Mormons primarily done this to make it easier to justify their own status as “Christian”, or are there any compelling reasons they have from scripture and reason? Even those rare Mormons who believe that Jesus was a sinner seem to be embraced as fellow Mormons. Is there simply no limit to what a “Christian” can believe beyond what is considered the minimum requirement?
The heart of my question for Mormons is whether the attributes and identity of Jesus and the Father matter with respect to the theological and spiritual definition of “Christian”. This of course is relevant to evangelical Christians, who don’t recognize as “Christian” those who believe the Father was once perhaps a mere mortal sinful man, or that he is potentially one among many in a larger genealogy of Gods. In fact, we happen to believe that these “defeater-beliefs” compromise the very nature and content of basic Christian beliefs, in an inevitably integrated and interconnected way. Call us bigoted, call us hateful, call us arbitrarily exclusive, but if someone believes that the Father is a great pumpkin in the sky, we don’t recognize them as Christian.
If the Book of Mormon was first penned between 600BC and AD 421, as claimed, how could it contain such extensive quotations from the AD 1611 KJV (using archaic King James English), which was not written until more than 1000 years later?
