Answer to A Mormons Question

Dear XXXXXXX,

XXXXX asked me to write you this Email to answer the question you asked, “Why we don’t believe that Mormons are Christian”. I hope that looking at the bible and LDS scriptures; I can explain the differences between our two very different religions.

God

The first theological difference that separates us is God. To be clear, we have two different Gods. We believe in the trinity that states that God is one but is also 3 beings. The father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit make up the Trinity.

I hope that this explains it a little better. I know that this doctrine may seem a bit hard to understand but we need to remember that God is bigger and we are not to understand all elements of Him but we need to have faith. But in answering your question, this is one of the major points that evangelical Christian look and sees that Mormons don’t believe in this and call LDS non-Christians.

Another point is the belief that God was once a man and that there are more than one God and that man may become a God.

· “We have imagined and supposed that God was God from all eternity. I will refute that idea, and take away the veil, so that you may see. These are incomprehensible ideas to some, but they are simple. It is the first principle of the Gospel to know for a certainty the Character of God, and to know that we may converse with him as one man converses with another, and that he was once a man like us; yea, that God the Father of us all, dwelt on an earth, the same as Jesus Christ himself did, and I will show it from the Bible” (Teachings of the Prophet Jo­seph Smith, pp. 345-346. Italics in original. See also Gospel Principles, 1997, p. 305).

· “As man is now, God once was; as God is now, man may be” (The Teach­ings of Lorenzo Snow, p. 2. Italics in original. See also The Life and Teachings of Jesus and His Apostles manual, 1979, p. 59).

The Issue is that Christians believe that God is eternal and there is only one God. This is a major point in the Book of Isaiah chapter 45.

· 5 I am the Lord, and there is no other; there is no God but Me. Isaiah 45:5 (HCSB)

· 22 Turn to Me and be saved, all the ends of the earth. For I am God, and there is no other. Isaiah 45:22 (HCSB)

Before the world there was God and no other. Evangelical Christians believe that God is God and there is no other God. We do not believe that God was once a man but that He has eternally been God. When I have read the Book of Mormon, I have seen this belief as well in verses like;

· “For I know that God is not a partial God, neither a changeable be­ing; but he is unchangeable from all eternity to all eternity” (Moroni 8:18)

· “And the king said: Is God that Great Spirit that brought our fa­thers out of the land of Jerusalem? And Aaron said unto him: Yea, he is that Great Spirit, and he created all things both in heaven and in earth. Believest thou this? And he said: Yea, I believe that the Great Spirit created all things, and I desire that ye should tell me concerning all these things, and I will believe thy words” ( Alma 22:9-11).

So this is where Evangelical Christians stand on God. As we both know, Mormons have a different believe on whom God is and therefore it is easy to see that we have two different Gods.

Jesus

· 1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning. 3 All things were created through Him, and apart from Him not one thing was created that has been created. 4 Life was in Him, and that life was the light of men. 5 That light shines in the darkness, yet the darkness did not overcome it. John 1:1-5 (HCSB)

This is the best verse to understand who Christians believe Jesus is. In this verse you are to see that the word, Word and Him are used for Jesus. This says that Jesus is God in the flesh and again is eternal. But the idea of Jesus in the eyes of the LDS is that He was the first born son of God and that Jesus was not God in the flesh.

“Jesus was born of heavenly parents in a premortal world—he was the firstborn of our Heavenly Father” (Robert D. Hales, “Your Sor­row Shall Be Turned to Joy,” Ensign (Conference Edition), Novem­ber 1983, p. 67)

But the bible makes it clear that the father and Jesus are one. We believe that God became flesh in the forum of the Son to die for the sins of man.

· The Father and I are one. John 10:30 (HCSB)

· 36 He sent the message to the Israelites, proclaiming the good news of peace through Jesus Christ—He is Lord of all. Acts 10:36 (HCSB)

Salvation

According to the bible, salvation comes from God as a gift through the Son Jesus Christ.

· 8 For you are saved by grace through faith, and this is not from yourselves; it is God’s gift 9 not from works, so that no one can boast. Eph 2:8-9 (HCSB)

· 23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. Romans 6:23 (HCSB)

We believe that salvation come to us when we seek God’s forgiveness and repent of our sins and put our faith in Jesus Christ. Again this is another point that Christians and Mormon have a difference on. Christians believe, once again, that salvation is a free gift and we can do no works to earn or keep our salvation. It is a onetime thing that happens when we call on the name of the Lord.

· 13 For everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved. Romans 10:13

But this is something different that is talked about in Mormon scripture. From what I understand and what I have read of the Mormon faith, there is an aspect of work that has to be done to earn and keep your salvation.

· “For we know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do” (The Book of Mormon, 2 Nephi 25:23)

· “I do not believe that a man is saved in this life by believing, or professing to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, but that he must endure to the end and keep the commandments that are given” (Joseph F. Smith, Conference Reports, April 1915, p. 119).

We believe that one is saved by grace and faith alone. God understood that man could not save ourselves and God, being a loving God, sent His Son to die on the cross and that anyone who puts their faith in Him and lives for Him will be saved.

An idea I always ask members of the LDS church is, “How much works do you have to do to pay off your sins?” If we sin everyday and have to work it off, then will anyone have salvation? This is why salvation is a gift, because God know that there was not the number of animals on the earth that could pay for everyone’s sin. He sent is Son to earth to be the perfect Lamb of God and by the spilling of Him blood on the cross, we are saved.

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves; but it is the gift of God; 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

I know I have used this verse before in this letter but I thought I would use it out of the Joseph Smith Inspired Version of the Bible to show that Joseph Smith did not change Ephesians 2:8-9 showing that salvation is a gift from God.

When writing you this letter to answer your question, I hoped I have showed you that we belong to two very different religions. Being an evangelical Christian and other Evangelical, we do not see members of the Mormon faith to be Christians because of these points. There are other points as well but for this letter I thought that these were some of the main ones I wanted to point out.

I pray that you read these and pray about them, understanding that God loves you and has a plain and place for you in His kingdom. But I also want you to understand that only one of our religions can be right. According to the Mormon belief, if I die tonight not being Mormon I would go to the Terrestrial Kingdom. But according to the Bible if one dies and he or her name is not written in the book of life, then one will be cast into the lake of fire.

I would love to meet with you face to face and we can talk more. You are always welcome to come to a service at First Baptist Duchesne and know that I keep you in my prayers.

Thank you for your time and God Bless,

Rev. Wil R. Hoffmann

Monday Bible Study week 3

A Night With A LDS Bishop

This is a Video of Earl Erskine, A Mormon Bishop and believer for 60 years.  hear his story.

Monday Bible Study (week 2)

We are saved by faith, not works

The Great Secret of The Book of Mormon

Uploaded by aaronshaf2006 on Aug 18, 2011

My corny and melodramatic way of getting the word out on Moroni 8:18.

http://WeAgreeWith818.com

__________________________________________________________

Question: Why does the Book of Mormon clam that God is from all eternity but now clams that God was once a man?

A faith is to hold true to it’s writings but clearing it shows that the book of Mormon teaches something different the D&C or Pearl of Great Price.  This is something that has always puzzled me about the LDS church. 

UNTIL NEXT TIME…  

Ready to Get the Word Out

So today I got may new Tract wallet and 2 packs of Million Dollar bills. I have ran out of million dollar bills and I don’t even want to talk about what happen to my old tract wallet. 

Now you can find both of these at www.wayofthemaster.com

The Million dollar bill is a tract that I have been using for years now and are good to just hand out.  I leave them with my tip when we go out to eat and just hand them out walking down the street. 

On Back of this tract it has the million dollar question, Will you go to heaven when you die?

What will your answer be?  The bible tells us that we have to be reborn to see the kingdom of God (John 3:3), and we have to put of faith in Jesus and repent of our sins.

I am happy today because now I can pass out more of these great tracts and spread the word of God.

UNTIL NEXT TIME…

Roman Road Bible Study

What The Walking Dead Can Teach Pro-Lifers

On August 16, 2011, in Journal Topics, by admin

The season finale of The Walking Dead raised an important question for Christians: Are humans nothing more than their physical brains? Are all of my thoughts predetermined by synapse firings in the brain? If so, several things follow. First, personal identity through time and change is impossible. When my physical body changes, my identity changes—meaning I can’t be held responsible from past crimes. Second, rational freedom is a myth. After all, if our thoughts are predetermined, we are not free to think any differently than we do. Indeed, one set of synapse firings is no more rational than the next. Third, rationality itself vanishes. If our minds are the result of blind and irrational forces of nature, why trust them to give us the truth about the world? In a strictly physical universe, survival rather than truth is primary. Fourth, human equality suffers. If human value is reduced to brain function, those with more of it are more human and valuable than those with less. Christian theism offers a more plausible explanation for human nature that can account for personal identity, rational freedom, and human equality. Humans are not mere physical machines, but a dynamic union of body and soul.

Scott Klusendorf is president of Life Training Institute and holds an M.A. in Christian apologetics from Biola University. His feature article, “What The Walking Dead Can Teach Pro-Lifers” on which this post is based appears in the Volume 34, No. 4 issue of the Christian Research Journal (a 6-issue subscription is $39.50). To read the full article, please subscribe or renew your subscription or give a gift subscription.

Scott Klusendorf will be joining Hank Hanegraaff on the Bible Answer Man broadcast on Aug. 16, 2011. Tune in at 6PM ET at our website, www.equip.org!

9 of the 1st

Version 9. On May 24, 1844, Alexander Niebaur wrote the first vision in his journal as Joseph Smith told it to him. In this account, most of the details are the same as the official version, except that Joseph was not told that all of the Christian sects were wrong. Instead, he was specifically told that the Methodists were not God's people.

Version 8. In 1843, Joseph Smith gave an interview to the Pittsburgh Gazette, which was reprinted in the New York Observer on Sept. 23, 1843. In this version, Joseph said he was 14 years old, and there was no mention of any dark power trying to overcome him.

Version 7. This is the officially accepted version of the first vision, published in Times and Seasons on April 1, 1842.

Version 6. On March 1, 1842, the Times and Seasons published contents of a letter written by Joseph Smith to John Wentworth. This was published one full month before the account that is accepted as the official version today. In this one, Joseph Smith did not give his age. He mentioned no evil power overcoming him, and he said two personages visited him, though he never identifies them. It is significant that he did not mention the evil power that played so prominently in the story and also that he omitted that the personages visiting him were supposedly God the Father and Jesus Christ.

Version 5. In 1841, Joseph Smith's brother William Smith told the story to James Murdock. This account is published in A New Witness For Christ In America (2:414-415). This account lists Joseph as being 17 years old when he received the vision, and rather than God and Jesus appearing to him, William states that it was only a "glorious angel." Admittedly, this account is third hand, and William could certainly have been mistaken about Joseph's age. But it is not likely that he would forget that God Himself and Jesus Christ visited his brother, unless he was never told that to begin with.

Usually we dismiss third-hand accounts in our research, believing them to usually be very unreliable. However, this account is substantiated by other sources. For example, in the early LDS publication Times and Seasons for December 15, 1840 (Vol.2 pg. 241), Oliver Cowdery stated specifically that Joseph Smith, Jr. was 17 at the time of the first vision - specifically placing the year of the vision in 1823. And in at least seven other places in the Journal of Discourses, early LDS leaders shared that it was only an unidentified angel that visited Joseph, not God and Jesus (2:171, 196, 197; 10:127; 13:78, 324; 20:167).

Brigham Young even stated specifically that the Lord did not visit young Joseph. In reference to this vision he said "The Lord did not come with the armies of heaven...But He did send His angel to this same obscure person, Joseph Smith jun...and informed him that he should not join any of the religions of the day, for they were all wrong;..." (Journal of Discourses 2:171).

William Smith's account was also printed in part in the RLDS Church publication The Saints Herald (Vol. 31 No. 40, page 643, 6/8/1884). No correction or retraction of the information published there was ever printed. We must keep in mind that both the LDS and RLDS (now known as the Community of Christ) share the same history for the first several years of Mormonism's existence. Contradictions regarding Smith's Vision would affect the credibility of both groups.

Finally, this account is also worthy of special consideration because it was first brought to light by a Mormon researcher from the LDS Church-owned Brigham Young University. As mentioned earlier, Paul Cheesman wrote his master's thesis in 1965 entitled "An Analysis of the Accounts Relating Joseph Smith's Early Visions." In that study he discusses this differing account of the first vision in detail. It was subsequently discussed by LDS scholars in the publication Dialogue: A Journal of Mormon Thought for Autumn 1966. None of these researchers and scholars dismissed the account as mere gossip; rather they discussed it as a valid account worthy of consideration. There is no reason, then, for us not to consider it as well.

Version 4. In 1837, William Appleby recorded the vision story as given by Orson Pratt in his diary. In this version, the revival was not until 1822, Joseph was 17 again, and the visitors were not God and Jesus but beings who identified themselves only as angels who claimed to have forgiven Joseph's sins. Again, this is a third-hand account, but the most important details of the vision are left out or completely different.

The differing details of this vision account have been verified by other statements of LDS leaders throughout the early years of the LDS Church. George A. Smith and Orson Hyde both stated that Joseph was visited not by God but by angels (Journal of Discourses 6:335; 12:334). This corroborative information makes this third-hand account worthy of our consideration. In addition, the discourses and statements of the early LDS apostles and prophets, as published in many books by the LDS Church, were mainly recorded from the diaries and journals of the early Mormons. The LDS Church considers these third-hand accounts to be valid enough to accept for "inspirational" material. It would be inconsistent for the Mormons to accept only those accounts that support their teachings and to disregard those accounts with which they disagree. Since Orson Pratt was a first-hand witness to the early events of Mormonism and to the life of Joseph Smith, Jr., his version of the events are of significant importance for consideration – even when recorded in a listener's journal.

Version 3. In 1835, Joseph Smith dictated his own account of the first vision for his personal diary. There is some question among scholars, even those who are LDS, as to who the scribe was for this part of the diary. Some believe it was Warren Parrish, but others believe it was Warren Cowdery. Regardless of which man physically wrote the account, the fact is that it appears in the official diary of the Prophet, and this journal entry is accepted as accurate and valid. In this account, which was first published in Dialogue: A Journal of Mormon Thought (VI, No.1, pg. 87), the evil power is mentioned for the very first time. In all previous published accounts (listed below), no evil power was ever mentioned by Joseph. Also, he does not claim that the messengers were God and Jesus, just that many angels visited him. That seems to be a very curious omission.

Version 2. In February 1835, the LDS publication Messenger and Advocate recorded the account of the vision that Joseph Smith gave to Oliver Cowdery. In this account, Joseph was 17 years old, the revival is in 1823, and no mention is made of James 1:5. Instead, Joseph claimed he had been wondering if there was a God and if his sins could be forgiven. His only reason for praying was to ask if God did exist. After "11 or 12 hours" in prayer, he was visited by "a messenger from God" who forgave Joseph's sins. While this vision is given in the Messenger and Advocate as the first vision of Joseph Smith, this story was later revised and published as a second vision from the angel Moroni preparatory to giving Joseph Smith the golden plates.

It should be noted that this account was printed not only in an LDS publication but also during the lifetime of Joseph Smith. No statements by Joseph against the accuracy of this account have been found, indicating his approval of the information given. It was also a second-hand account given by Oliver Cowdery, a witness to many of the key events in LDS history. The same account was also copied unchanged into Joseph Smith's Manuscript History of the Church and subsequently into the LDS publication Times and Seasons. Since it was copied into so many LDS publications and records without any changes, the account must have been considered accurate and valid to Joseph Smith at that time. This adds quite a bit of significance to the differing details of this version.

Version 1. The earliest known account of the first vision was written in 1831-32 in Joseph Smith's own handwriting. This was the version made public by Paul Cheesman in 1965, published later that same year by Jerald and Sandra Tanner in Joseph Smith's Strange Account of the First Vision. This account had been in the hands of LDS leaders for over 130 years, hidden away in their vaults – presumably because it differs so greatly from the official version. In this account, Smith claimed to be 16 years old and that he already knew that all churches were wrong from reading the Bible. Joseph sought forgiveness, and it was Jesus alone who visited him and forgave his sins.

Are you a good person?

Are You a Good Person?

From: thewayofthemaster | Jul 30, 2011

"Are you a good person?" animation produced by Cedric Hohnstadt from www.cedricstudio.com
Additional animators include Michael Foster & Chance Dodd
Mr. Nice Guy........................Kirk Cameron
Narrator.............................David Jeremiah
Criminal/ Judge.....Emeal ("E.Z.") Zwayne
Woman..............................Rachel Proctor
Based on Hell's Best Kept Secret by Ray Comfort

I Love Mormons

So I have come to the understanding that some people are upset with some of my videos and comments that I have made on my blog or youtube. It is hard to give a full idea of what I believe about the Mormon faith and over comments so I have decide to write a blog about some of the comments I have gotten and what I think of them.

First I want to say that I am a bible believing Christian who has been call by God to come and serve at a small church in Utah. When I started Bible College I felt God calling me to study the Mormon faith have done so for the past 5 years.

This started even before I became a Christian when I was looking for God and was talking to some Mormon missionaries who could not even get the first vision right, as I learned later. But even from the beginning I knew there was something wrong. But as I started to read more and understand more of how the LDS church started, things got more and stranger in what was happen in this church.

Like the 9 versions of Joseph Smiths 1^st vision.

· 1827 — Account of Joseph Smith, Sr., and Joseph Smith, Jr., given to Willard Chase, as related in his 1833 affidavit.

· 1827 — Account by Martin Harris given to Rev. John Clark, as published in his book Gleanings by the Way, printed in 1842, pp. 222-229.

· 1830 — Interview of Joseph Smith by Peter Bauder, recounted by Bauder in his book The Kingdom and the Gospel of Jesus Christ, printed in 1834, pp. 36-38.

· 1832 — Earliest known attempt at an ‘official’ recounting of the ‘First Vision, from History, 1832, Joseph Smith Letterbook 1, pp.2,3, in the handwriting of Joseph Smith.

· 1834-35 — Oliver Cowdery, with Joseph Smith’s help, published the first history of Mormonism in the LDS periodical Messenger and Advocate, Kirtland, Ohio, Dec. 1834, vol.1, no.3

· 1835 — Account given by Joseph Smith to Joshua the Jewish minister, Joseph Smith Diary, Nov. 9, 1835.

· 1835 — Account given by Joseph Smith to Erastus Holmes on November 14, 1835, originally published in the Deseret News of Saturday May 29, 1852.

· 1838 — This account became the official version, now part of Mormon Scripture in the Pearl of Great Price, Joseph Smith — History, 1:7-20. Though written in 1838, it was not published until 1842 in Times and Season, March 15, 1842, vol. 3, no. 10, pp. 727-728, 748-749, 753.

· 1844 — Account in An Original History of the Religious Denominations at Present Existing in the United States, edited by Daniel Rupp. Joseph Smith wrote the chapter on Mormonism.

· 1859 — Interview with Martin Harris, Tiffany’s Monthly, 1859, New York: Published by Joel Tiffany, vol. v.—12, pp. 163-170.

Say what you want but if God and Jesus came to me, that part of the story I would never change!!!

We can also look to see that the book of Mormon talks about God being God from all eternity but then Joseph Smith changing that we He started to clam that we could become gods.

· “For I know that God is not a partial God, neither a changeable be­ing; but he is unchangeable from all eternity to all eternity” (The Book of Mormon, Moroni 8:18).

· “We have imagined and supposed that God was God from all eternity. I will refute that idea, and take away the veil, so that you may see. These are incomprehensible ideas to some, but they are simple. It is the first principle of the Gospel to know for a certainty the Character of God, and to know that we may converse with him as one man converses with another, and that he was once a man like us; yea, that God the Father of us all, dwelt on an earth, the same as Jesus Christ himself did, and I will show it from the Bible” (Teachings of the Prophet Jo­seph Smith, pp. 345-346. Italics in original. See also Gospel Principles, 1997, p. 305).

So Which one is it? Was God always God from all eternity or was God a man?

What about the Adam God Doctrine?

· Now hear it, O inhabitants of the earth, Jew and Gentile, Saint and sinner! When our father Adam came into the garden of Eden, he came into it with a celestial body, and brought Eve, one of his wives, with him. He helped to make and organize this world. He is MICHAEL, the Archangel, the ANCIENT OF DAYS! about whom holy men have written and spoken—HE is our FATHER and our GOD, and the only God with whom WE have to do” (Brigham Young, April 9, 1852, Journal of Discourses 1:50).

· “We warn you against the dissemination of doctrines which are not according to the scriptures and which are alleged to have been taught by some of the General Authorities of past generations. Such, for instance, is the Adam-God theory. We denounce that theory and hope that everyone will be cautioned against this and other kinds of false doctrine” (Spencer W. Kimball, “Adam-God Theory Denounced,” Church News, October 9, 1976, p. 11).

So was Brigham Young a false teacher?

This is why I clam that Mormons today do not know what their faith believes is because it changes from day to day. but here is something, the bible is always the same.

Also I have a issue with Joseph Smith and how arrogant he was with his faith.

· “I have more to boast of than ever any man had. I am the only man that has ever been able to keep a whole church together since the days of Adam. A large majority of the whole have stood by me. Neither Paul, John, Peter, nor Jesus ever did it. I boast that no man ever did such a work as I” (Joseph Smith, May 26, 1844, History of the Church 6:408-409).

This statement in itself is blasphemy

I could go on but what would be the point. People are going to read this and say I right or wrong and I am ok with ether. The point that I am trying to make is that I believe in the bible and I have a heart for the people who live in the Mormon faith. I LOVE MORMONS. But the issue is, they are not Christians. We do not believe the same thing; we do not have the same God. I fear for their eternality because the Bible is clear that if you do not accept Jesus, the Jesus of the bible, one will not go to heaven. Please don’t think that I am mean or hateful, I am just trying to spread the Word of God.

Until Next Time…

Just Like Paul

Just like Paul, I have come to and understanding that we must give all things over to God.  I have been studying Romans 6 today and I have just been so blessed by what it says, I just need to write this.

Just like Paul when Jesus came to him, Paul gave his life to God.  Being a Jew, Paul knew God but he did not know God.  Through Jesus Paul became one of the best preachers in the world and it’s because he gave it all to God.

Romans 6 talks about how we have a new life in Christ and how we should live each moment for God because of the grace that He has shown us and is still showing us.  Start now by giving your life to Christ and Live each moment for Him.

The Bible vs The Book of Mormon